Mandrew Posted January 7, 2008 Share What makes a top of the line cannondale aluminum frame (invisible weld marks) 'better' than like....a Raleigh rc1000's frame (tons of rough weld marks)? for example Apart from weight..... Mandrew2008-01-07 14:22:01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johan Bornman Posted January 7, 2008 Share What makes a top of the line cannondale aluminum frame (invisible weld marks) 'better' than like....a Raleigh rc1000's frame (tons of rough weld marks)? for exampleApart from weight..... You may as well have asked what makes Islam better than Christianity. After this thread has died out, you'll still be none the wiser. I haven't examined a Cannondale recently, but my Cannondale frame has welding that looks like toothpaste ridges which a child tried to smooth out. Hardly invisible. One difference is that the Cannondale has a sticker that says "Handmade in the US of A" - or something similarly derogatory towards the rest of the world. I want my consumer goods to be made by robot. I don't care about its origin other than I would prefer the robots were'nt tended to by slaves or involved something else abhorent. The best weld finish I've ever seen on an aluminium frame was on De Rosa frames. Aluminium requires a large weld bead that must be filed away if you want it to be smooth - big beads don't translate to poor welding but titanium....a good weld on titanium should never be filed, painted or hidden, it is too beautiful to destroy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandrew Posted January 7, 2008 Share well fine, is their any difference between a rc1000 frame and a rc8000 frame, apart from weight....better ??Mandrew2008-01-07 14:41:59 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoLefty!! Posted January 7, 2008 Share What makes a top of the line cannondale aluminum frame (invisible weld marks) 'better' than like....a Raleigh rc1000's frame (tons of rough weld marks)? for exampleApart from weight..... You may as well have asked what makes Islam better than Christianity. After this thread has died out' date=' you'll still be none the wiser. I haven't examined a Cannondale recently, but my Cannondale frame has welding that looks like toothpaste ridges which a child tried to smooth out. Hardly invisible. One difference is that the Cannondale has a sticker that says "Handmade in the US of A" - or something similarly derogatory towards the rest of the world. I want my consumer goods to be made by robot. I don't care about its origin other than I would prefer the robots were'nt tended to by slaves or involved something else abhorent. The best weld finish I've ever seen on an aluminium frame was on De Rosa frames. Aluminium requires a large weld bead that must be filed away if you want it to be smooth - big beads don't translate to poor welding but titanium....a good weld on titanium should never be filed, painted or hidden, it is too beautiful to destroy. [/quote'] Design.. higher quality material.. better stress relieving.. better marketing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandrew Posted January 7, 2008 Share dank-ku Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johan Bornman Posted January 7, 2008 Share Design.. higher quality material.. better stress relieving.. better marketing... Have a critical look at this three-pronged statement. Design? It's not as if a cheaper frame uses a design that is cheaper to arrive at. They'll design it to look different, but they'll all be designed to do what they have to do. Better Quality material? Usually not. You'll find that most of the time it is the same alu stock used throughout. If there is a different type of alu here or there on the frame, it is usually so that they can apply the manufacturing techniques they need to apply. If there is more bending involved it'll be say 6000-series alu and more machine, say 7000-series. In the bicycle sense, the one is not better than the other, it is just more appropriate for where it is used. Stress relieving? Stress relieving on welded alu frames is done by baking it in an over for extended periods at 300 degrees C. Expensive and cheap ones all go in the same oven. If a specific type of alu has to be cooked for 3 1/2 hours, then it stays in longer. There's no better or worse technique, it's the same. Marketing - yes. So what is the difference? Perhaps small design/manufacturing things like more elegant cable lugs or a nicer machined head tube. However, what you see is what you get. There won't be any invisible design/manufacturing things that makes one better. On MT bikes it is common to use a similar frame for all models and then on the top-end model, weld extra gussets at the bottom junction of the down and head tube and top and head-tube. This you can see. I would put marketing at number one and the other stuff, if you can't see it, not in the list at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinnekop Posted January 8, 2008 Share The difference as Johan has so elegantly pointed out is style. You either have it or not. What is the difference between Waterkloof and Danville? Audi and Datsun? Kate Hudson and Ewep? Crayfish and Sardines. The list goes on.......Taste differs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alida Posted January 8, 2008 Share I had a Fuji SL Alu frame way back and before I had to replace the frame (thank you to the motorist that didn't see me ...) I first upraded my gruppo and then got better wheels and then a couple of other odds and ends (handlebars, stem, seatpost etc) New frame didn't make as much of a difference as all the other goodies. My 5c ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotSoBigBen Posted January 8, 2008 Share Spidey - Kate Hudson and Ewep? - I guess at least we know they're both 'girls' but she probably eats less pies than him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_the_builder Posted January 8, 2008 Share Taste differs. Spidey - Kate Hudson and Ewep? - I guess at least we know they're both 'girls' but she probably eats less pies than him! I assume Kate tastes better too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted January 8, 2008 Share I have a Trek 1500 and I prefer it to the Soloist on a climb... Just the geometry, I dunno what it is... But on the flats and false flats, the soloist knobs the Trek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canaris Posted January 8, 2008 Share Taste differs.? ? ? ?Spidey - Kate Hudson and Ewep? - I guess at least we know they're both 'girls' smileys/smiley4.gif" height="17" width="17" align="absmiddle" alt="Big%20smile" />? but she probably eats less pies than him!I assume Kate tastes better too?smileys/smiley2.gif" align="absmiddle" alt="Wink" /> you probably will have a better chance of tasting ewep than kate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotSoBigBen Posted January 8, 2008 Share you probably will have a better chance of tasting ewep than kate But would you want to I ask myself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_the_builder Posted January 8, 2008 Share you probably will have a better chance of tasting ewep than kate Eeewww! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canaris Posted January 8, 2008 Share simply the following needs to be considered: frame geometery. head angles, frame height, frame length ext. Each manufacturer tries to be a little different, so as to be unique. Also the more expensive bikes (that normally are derived for racing) trend to have more agressive racing angles, where the cheaper bikes often focused on recreational cyclists have more forgiving slacker angles and are set for a mor upright position. finishing: cheaper bike, cheaper paint job. cheaper alu (heavier thicker tubes- less technology), which does not mean weaker though. Less refined finishing pon the brazing points Jewelry. Why put a record groupo on a tank?, so cheaper bikes normally have heavier wheels, shimano (tiagra) and cheaper heavier handle bars, saddles, stems ext ext. So, best advice.... decide on why you are cycling, determine best geometery for the purpose, buy the bike that fits purpose, and price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinnekop Posted January 8, 2008 Share Could not think of anyone or anything prettier than Kate and anything uglier than Ewep. Easy realy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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