jcza Posted October 12, 2012 Share @JCZA I don't believe that this event is quite the same as the past. I don't think you can relate this to a simple case of a top rider being caught for drugs, it does suggest a systemic problem and perhaps Wonder Women (+ others) might be onto something with the suggestion that the riders are simply being pushed to far. Spot on - read the Kimmage book. It was (maybe still is) a systemic problem. Dope just to keep up and keep your income. Link to comment https://forum.bikehub.co.za/topic/117304-lance-armstrong-banned-and-stripped-of-tdf-titles/page/117/#findComment-1810815 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombeej Posted October 12, 2012 Share nope - its pretty much all the same stuff that we've heard before, but corroborated by multiple witnesses ... and lots of financial transactions and email records Link to comment https://forum.bikehub.co.za/topic/117304-lance-armstrong-banned-and-stripped-of-tdf-titles/page/117/#findComment-1810816 Share on other sites More sharing options...
EZRider Posted October 12, 2012 Share So a couple of questions for those celebrating: Are you also happy that all the confessed dopers in the report (other than LA) are getting IN EFFECT no punishment at all?Do you really believe that all of them never doped before Lance and only doped because of him? If yes to above I suppose you really do believe that Lance made them do it - poor little victims. I then understand why you see there should be one set of rules for Lance and another for the rest... For me - not so much. Lance deserves to have his results expunged as much as the rest do - no more no less. you can't make up the rules as you go (such as ignoring the statute of limitations for 1 guy). Much of the report is moralising and argumentative - rather than simply presenting the facts. No reason for this other than to continue trying to justify the crusade and the special treatment given to LA... He is managing to influence you, someone whose name he doesn't even know living across an ocean in a place he doesn't care about.The rules are the same for everyone. He chose not to participate precisely to continue to hold influence over people he doesn't know living far away. Link to comment https://forum.bikehub.co.za/topic/117304-lance-armstrong-banned-and-stripped-of-tdf-titles/page/117/#findComment-1810821 Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Dale Posted October 12, 2012 Share I like the way Garmin-Sharp have enabled their riders in Zabriskie, vdVelde,etc. to admit to past mistakes and stay with the team, although a 6 month ban is in the pipeline. Transforming the sport will be tough to 'shed the old, bring in the new'.It is best to have a both/and scenario where riders face their bans, maintain their contracts and team support and pledge to move forward and compete cleanly. Exciting times for the sport. About the UCI and its leadership. Go away, Pat.There is no turning back. Link to comment https://forum.bikehub.co.za/topic/117304-lance-armstrong-banned-and-stripped-of-tdf-titles/page/117/#findComment-1810828 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dracs Posted October 12, 2012 Share some of them, definitely. Zabriskie was one of the ones who LA came down heavily on for not following the program. He was told "dope or be kicked off the team". There were others as wellAnd from his statement Landis also tried to make him take growth hormones.... Link to comment https://forum.bikehub.co.za/topic/117304-lance-armstrong-banned-and-stripped-of-tdf-titles/page/117/#findComment-1810829 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dracs Posted October 12, 2012 Share Yes and no. But they got the bans dictated by the rules. Yes and no. But there was pressure put on some of them to do it.Not so sure the rules say confessed dopers are allowed to ride the tour when they've just admitted their sins. Link to comment https://forum.bikehub.co.za/topic/117304-lance-armstrong-banned-and-stripped-of-tdf-titles/page/117/#findComment-1810833 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dracs Posted October 12, 2012 Share Jan Ulrich never tested positive at the TDF. It was only in 2005 that a Puerto blood bag was suspected to contain his blood, same with Basso. There is no proof or testimonies that they doped before 2005. Imo there is no option but to move the title to the next rider in line who have not tested positive during that race or admitted to doping. Else all Contador's wins must also be stripped because he tested positive in 2010.I agree with you. And who really doesn't think that would be a complete farce? Link to comment https://forum.bikehub.co.za/topic/117304-lance-armstrong-banned-and-stripped-of-tdf-titles/page/117/#findComment-1810836 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumbleweed Posted October 12, 2012 Share Not so sure the rules say confessed dopers are allowed to ride the tour when they've just admitted their sins. Sorry, I am not getting you… Link to comment https://forum.bikehub.co.za/topic/117304-lance-armstrong-banned-and-stripped-of-tdf-titles/page/117/#findComment-1810838 Share on other sites More sharing options...
orbeaorca Posted October 12, 2012 Share “It’s pretty damning stuff. It is pretty jaw-dropping the amount of people who have testified against him,” Wiggins told Sky News on Thursday. “It is certainly not a one-sided hatchet job, it is pretty damning. I am shocked at the scale of the evidence. From velonews. Now here is a man speaking who should be worried with the way he and his team were riding @ TDF. Oh , sorry its his swimming coach that made the difference. Maybe Ryk Neethling must become coach of mtn!!! Link to comment https://forum.bikehub.co.za/topic/117304-lance-armstrong-banned-and-stripped-of-tdf-titles/page/117/#findComment-1810842 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcza Posted October 12, 2012 Share Exciting times for the sport. About the UCI and its leadership. Go away, Pat.There is no turning back. Until there are changes at the UCI nothing else will change. Pat needs to go. Link to comment https://forum.bikehub.co.za/topic/117304-lance-armstrong-banned-and-stripped-of-tdf-titles/page/117/#findComment-1810843 Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Dale Posted October 12, 2012 Share Until there are changes at the UCI nothing else will change. Pat needs to go. That's one tough skinned oke. Link to comment https://forum.bikehub.co.za/topic/117304-lance-armstrong-banned-and-stripped-of-tdf-titles/page/117/#findComment-1810846 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dracs Posted October 12, 2012 Share He is managing to influence you, someone whose name he doesn't even know living across an ocean in a place he doesn't care about.The rules are the same for everyone. He chose not to participate precisely to continue to hold influence over people he doesn't know living far away.I am sure you are trying to make some sort of point but confess I have no idea what it is? I think for myself. Link to comment https://forum.bikehub.co.za/topic/117304-lance-armstrong-banned-and-stripped-of-tdf-titles/page/117/#findComment-1810847 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fandacious Posted October 12, 2012 Share Now here is a man speaking who should be worried with the way he and his team were riding @ TDF. Oh , sorry its his swimming coach that made the difference. Maybe Ryk Neethling must become coach of mtn!!! i'll go out on a limb and say it - sky are just as dirty as the rest. Wiggo can call everyone bone idle wankers, and swear and shout as much as he likes, but i'll wager that he and his luitenants will be busted within the next 12 months Link to comment https://forum.bikehub.co.za/topic/117304-lance-armstrong-banned-and-stripped-of-tdf-titles/page/117/#findComment-1810849 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumbleweed Posted October 12, 2012 Share Now here is a man speaking who should be worried with the way he and his team were riding @ TDF. Oh , sorry its his swimming coach that made the difference. Maybe Ryk Neethling must become coach of mtn!!! Boardman's a swimming coach?!!!!!!!!!!!! Wiggins said: ‘People like Michael Barry, I can relate to. I don’t envy him the peer pressure at US Postal with Armstrong there. You can’t condemn these people for the rest of their lives, they’re not Jimmy Savile. I’m very fortunate I was in the system. British Cycling supported me. Chris Boardman in my early 20s probably saved me, he taught me to do things the right way. That could’ve been me.’ Read more: http://www.dailymail...l#ixzz294liNPwSFollow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook Edited October 12, 2012 by Tumbleweed Link to comment https://forum.bikehub.co.za/topic/117304-lance-armstrong-banned-and-stripped-of-tdf-titles/page/117/#findComment-1810852 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcza Posted October 12, 2012 Share i'll go out on a limb and say it - sky are just as dirty as the rest. Wiggo can call everyone bone idle wankers, and swear and shout as much as he likes, but i'll wager that he and his luitenants will be busted within the next 12 months I think you're right Link to comment https://forum.bikehub.co.za/topic/117304-lance-armstrong-banned-and-stripped-of-tdf-titles/page/117/#findComment-1810853 Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Dale Posted October 12, 2012 Share i'll go out on a limb and say it - sky are just as dirty as the rest. Wiggo can call everyone bone idle wankers, and swear and shout as much as he likes, but i'll wager that he and his luitenants will be busted within the next 12 months With the longstanding prevailing culture in the sport, I can back you on that. Would you make the same assertion about Vaugthers and the Garmin-Sharp team?They've had reasonable success.I want to be hopeful and positive that this team, as an example, is different. Link to comment https://forum.bikehub.co.za/topic/117304-lance-armstrong-banned-and-stripped-of-tdf-titles/page/117/#findComment-1810862 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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