Cyclist knocked down in St James this morning

[sluiper]

The irony of illegally taken photographs being used to demonstrate "illegal" behaviour by bus drivers is ironic. And amusing.

What gives you the right to break the law to demonstrate others allegedly doing the same?

 

I have read this and other threads and pieces on cycling accidents - especially in Cape Town. The fact is that there is certainly a problem, but until there is mutual respect between cyclists and other road users, nothing good will happen. Accidents will continue to occur and Newton tells us that cyclists will (almost invariably) come off the worst.

 

The majority of reaction to yesterday's tragic accident on this thread has been kneejerk and (perhaps understandably) emotional. Not all GABS drivers are murderers. You know very little of the GABS training programme, yet you make rash assumptions, judgements and statements. Do you think the driver in question did it deliberately? How do you think he feels, having been involved in an accident which took a young man's life? You are looking at this solely from one side. That's unhelpful.

 

Things need to settle down a little if any coherent and progressive response is to come from this incident.

 

Just saying.

 

Anne Observer. (sometime driver, sometime cyclist, not been on a bus for years)

 

I feel absolutely nothing for that bus driver. In my book he deserves no sympathy. His actions can be equated with someone taking a loaded gun and firing it into a crowd: he knew his actions could cause death, yet he took the decision to take the chance of killing an innocent person.

 

I've stated this multiple times, but I really do believe he should be charged with murder. Look up the definition of dolus eventualis if you disagree.

 

Somewhere the world's tiniest violin is playing for the poor driver, the real victim in this tale.

['Dale]

Its unfortunate and very sad when a person loses their life for no reason. Most if not all road cyclists have had a close shave at some time or other.

 

The challenge is to get ALL road users to respect each other and be more tolerant. Without this nothing much will change.

 

There has been a lot of speculation on the HUB regarding what does PPA do with its funds and what should it be doing.

 

As a PPA committee member I am proud to share what PPA has and is doing in respect of making our roads safer for all cyclists.

 

PPA last year launched a Safe Cycling campaign which is incrementally being rolled out country wide. The campaign "Cyclist stay alive at 1.5m" incoporates visible bright yellow cycling jerseys (available online at PPA at a susidised cost), print, radio, social media, moving advertisements on busses (last year) as well as awareness stickers and licence disks (over 70 000 distributed to date). Over R500 000 has been spent to date with another R1000 000 in this years budget for the Safe Cycling Campaign.

 

PPA has also funded a masters student at UCT to study and recommend what would constitue a safe passing distance.

 

In addtion PPA has lodged a civil claim for damages against the motorist who killed the unfortunate cyclists outside Outshoorn a few years ago. The purpose being to sensitize the public to the fact that we as cyclist also have rights!

 

This is only part of what PPA does on behalf of all of us cyclist. For more information please contact the PPA office, website or talk to one of our committee members.

 

Other than your institutional position here, do you ride a bike and face the risks that roadies face?

[ThaStig]

Great idea but the problem is cyclists themselves.

I tried such an idea when on PPA EXCO 6 years ago. It was poorly marketed by the office and cyclists didn't want to wear something that made them stand out. the concept was simple, High vis cycling top with "Fragile, pass me 1.5m right"

 

It took off like an ostrich.

 

The other issue that most August Riders, only ride February through March then the bikes get put away and they become motorists again. Some the worst driver I encounter have bike racks hanging off the back. Now if a motorist, selling cycling to everyone he passes with his bikes dangling off the back, can't respect other cyclists on theirr bikes, how is he going to convince other motorist that giving cyclists right of way is mature and responsible.

 

Driving up Chappies a few months ago to get to a slope gliding sight I came upon a group of cyclists. I stthere in first gear for probably 1Km with other motorsits hootin behind. Eventually one chop just went for it and nearly took out a cyclist and an oncoming car. So the cyclist berate me for putting them in danger.....!!WTF?!!

 

Folks, the whole change starts with us. When we get behind the wheel drive like you would motorists to drive when you're on the bike. Mostly If I wait behind cyclists and pass when its safe to do so, following motorist will do similarly. There will be the chop who push through. Culture change starts at home.

 

I feel the transgressions of GA should be continually ighlighted and the authorities should be taken to task for turning a blind eye.

Cycle lanes are not going to happen in a hurry. Theres no appetite for it at a provincial government level. they want you on buses. Integrated transport networks se voet. There's no money in commuting bicyclists.

 

stick together on this

ride safe

obey basic rules of the road.

Firstly; my condolences to the family and friends of the deceased cyclist and I felt sick to the pit of my stomach whenI heard the news.

being a cyclist who often trains, commutes and drives that route to work everyday and having lost a cyclist friend to an alleged drunk driver, near Glencairn station. I would like to make some observations. This incident has come about through the desensitising of drivers to the right of a cyclist/cyclists to be on the road. There are a number of factors leading to this and 'we' as cyclist are also to blame for this. You will not believe how many times I have to field the anger of drivers at my work-place for "our" behavior on that stretch of road, this has worsened since the road has re-opened and it appears that it has been narrowed slightly. There have been complaints leveled of a certain large bunch of cyclist/tri-athletes dressed in black and white who train on that stretch almost every day. There are some guys/gals in this bunch who are not a good advert for what we want to achieve, by riding 2/3 abreast (not just on the Kalkbay stretch) like they own the road and are very arrogant/aggressive when hooted at. This is no excuse for what happened in this case, but I just mention this as a contributing factor. If we demand respect for our rights on the road then "we" (collectively) have to display respect for the other road users rights as well and not give them any reason to diminish our rights like those of a pest. Make no mistake, I have had my fair share of run-ins with drivers too, who have either not seen me or deliberately did not care as the one fool (who works around the corner from me) said; "I pay R500 license fees and you don't, so you don't belong on the road"???. Let me ask this question: how many of us respect taxi-drivers? Why don't we? There is the perception that all taxi drivers are law-breaking, disrespectful thugs who do not deserve to be on the road and should not be given an inch on the road. While this might not be true of all taxi drivers that is the perception and their collective rights have been diminished as a result. We should guard against this happening to 'us'(cyclists) as an indirect result of "our" actions.

Edited October 25, 2012 by ThaStig

[Proud PPA Member]

Other than your institutional position here, do you ride a bike and face the risks that roadies face?

Most days and over the years have been knocked off by cars on 3 seperate occasions, the most recent a few weeks ago!

['Dale]

Most days and over the years have been knocked off by cars on 3 seperate occasions, the most recent a few weeks ago!

 

Okay...

It adds credibility to your opinion here for me.

 

Thanx for your response.

[GoLefty!!]

Its unfortunate and very sad when a person loses their life for no reason. Most if not all road cyclists have had a close shave at some time or other.

 

The challenge is to get ALL road users to respect each other and be more tolerant. Without this nothing much will change.

 

on this we agree. However, every step first requires the building of a framework of understanding on behaviours also known as rules. Currently the rules of the road are based on Apartheid thinking where DIe baas in die kar gets the most rights and the plaaswerkes opie fietse don't have any. That needs to change to be in line with the constitution of the country ( you know equal rights for all ). Then these rules need to be enforced and policed. People do not change. We're waiting 20 years already for racism to be a thing of the past and it remains. Driving behaviour is something very few people think about unless it hits their pocket. Think about it...

 

There has been a lot of speculation on the HUB regarding what does PPA do with its funds and what should it be doing.

 

As a PPA committee member I am proud to share what PPA has and is doing in respect of making our roads safer for all cyclists.

 

PPA last year launched a Safe Cycling campaign which is incrementally being rolled out country wide. The campaign "Cyclist stay alive at 1.5m" incoporates visible bright yellow cycling jerseys (available online at PPA at a susidised cost), print, radio, social media, moving advertisements on busses (last year) as well as awareness stickers and licence disks (over 70 000 distributed to date). Over R500 000 has been spent to date with another R1000 000 in this years budget for the Safe Cycling Campaign.

 

Has PPA measured the impact of this campaign. Have you surveyed the general populace to understand if its worked or it your pride based on blind faith - we spent the money therefore it worked....?

 

PPA has also funded a masters student at UCT to study and recommend what would constitue a safe passing distance.

 

Really......wow, masters level study into the obvious. Tell me who is the student and to whom on the committee is this student related?

 

In addtion PPA has lodged a civil claim for damages against the motorist who killed the unfortunate cyclists outside Outshoorn a few years ago. The purpose being to sensitize the public to the fact that we as cyclist also have rights!

 

This is really good. I was starting to worry that perhaps PPA lives in never never land. I would expect that is the sort of activity that should fall within the org's mandate

 

This is only part of what PPA does on behalf of all of us cyclist. For more information please contact the PPA office, website or talk to one of our committee members.

 

I would expect that more details would be documented and on the website. I'll admit, that masters student sounds highly dodgy to me....

 

I would also expect PPA to be championing the objectives of the argus Cycle Tour. Promote safe cycling for all, and that includes lobbying for changes to legislation. That's really would should be done. Everything else is window dressing. You're making cake icing without the cake being present.

 

There are some basics already in the road traffic act. the 1.5m rule needs to be supplemented with laws protecting pedestrians and cyclist i.e. those with high exposure.

 

Would like to hear more of your thoughts around that.

[Icycling]

This is sad that it's taken a life before some of the 35 000 or 50 000 odd cyclists in the country want to take action. But, one thing sems to be clear that if PPA are indeed sitting on stashed cash, then it's time for a rival cycling body to be formed in Cape Town.

One that actually will do something for cyclists to make it safer in the Cape, and in so doing, will "guarantee" its future existance by retaining members through its actions and this will hopefully lead to similar cycling bodies being formed in other areas.

35 odd years ago I used to cycle that road and I am always checking over my shoulder. Some motorists just do not look for pedestrians, cyclists or motorbikes, they look for cars and trucks before overtaking.

Bright colour jerseys? years ago a friend was nearly killed despite his neon green top, a truck still managed to hit him in the yellow lane. Put him in intensive care for months and now he has a permanent limp.

 

I don't know what the answer is to making it safer for cyclists and pedestrians, perhaps a petition we can sign at major cycling / running events could be started to be presented to relevant bodies / municipalities / ministers, etc. but we must start doing something. Any doers and shakers out there?

I don't think a rival body is the way to go - after all PPA is in the position it is in with cash due to the Cape Argus Pick 'n Pay cycle tour.

 

I do think the PPA members however need to guide the committee on how much they may or may not save on an annual basis and lets face it some saving is always good! But as an ex committee member it is far easier not to spend money and just let it grow in saving than it would be to be held accountable if it turn out what the committee thinks may be a good idea turned out to be a bad idea! The EXCO committee id built of volunteers with a very low Honiara of which many of the committee (myself included - mine was sent to Wed night racing at Killarney) do not accept for themselves.

 

If the over all instruction from the PPA members is you must spend X% of the income received annually and we the members trust you - thats why we voted for you or nominated you to be on the committee - to spend it wisely on cycling, then I think more money would be pumped back into cycles and the reality is that some might end up been waisted on unsuccessful events / projects!

[Icycling]

is built

[Icycling]

on this we agree. However, every step first requires the building of a framework of understanding on behaviours also known as rules. Currently the rules of the road are based on Apartheid thinking where DIe baas in die kar gets the most rights and the plaaswerkes opie fietse don't have any. That needs to change to be in line with the constitution of the country ( you know equal rights for all ). Then these rules need to be enforced and policed. People do not change. We're waiting 20 years already for racism to be a thing of the past and it remains. Driving behaviour is something very few people think about unless it hits their pocket. Think about it...

 

 

 

Has PPA measured the impact of this campaign. Have you surveyed the general populace to understand if its worked or it your pride based on blind faith - we spent the money therefore it worked....?

 

 

 

Really......wow, masters level study into the obvious. Tell me who is the student and to whom on the committee is this student related?

 

I can assure you the student is not related to any of the committee. When this was done was before the 1.5m campaign and I do understand why the committee chose to fund this (at least spending some cash!). Will it amount to anything I cannot say.

 

 

 

This is really good. I was starting to worry that perhaps PPA lives in never never land. I would expect that is the sort of activity that should fall within the org's mandate

 

 

 

I would expect that more details would be documented and on the website. I'll admit, that masters student sounds highly dodgy to me....

 

I would also expect PPA to be championing the objectives of the argus Cycle Tour. Promote safe cycling for all, and that includes lobbying for changes to legislation. That's really would should be done. Everything else is window dressing. You're making cake icing without the cake being present.

 

There are some basics already in the road traffic act. the 1.5m rule needs to be supplemented with laws protecting pedestrians and cyclist i.e. those with high exposure.

 

Would like to hear more of your thoughts around that.

[DoubleDee]

It is really a tragedy that this guy lost his life! It just brings us closer to the fact that something has to be done so that all drivers/riders of all forms of transport can develop mutual respect for each other! I have ridden my bicycle in London and motorists respect other road users and vice versa! Playing the blame game is what happens in a situation like this where emotions are involved, the truth is that respect will only be given when it is earned. We as cyclists will almost always come off second best so we need to"make friends" with motorists to start making this better!

[DJR]

My 2c re. the PPA

 

Of all the cycling bodies in SA, they have done more than anyone else to promote cycling and safety for cyclists. I can offhand think of them handing out helmets, lights and reflective gear to commuters as well as their sticker campaign and the Argus itself. From what I gather, they've also negotiated free cycling along Chappies. They paid for the cycle paths in Lower Tokai and their own staff did the tree planting there. I'm not saying they cannot improve, but I, personally, will cut them some slack in this regard.

['Dale]

@iCycle,

 

Open that other PPA strategy/budgeting/spending thread, man?

Sooner than later, eh.

 

It's a valuable topic.

 

:-)

[Tubehunter]

The irony of illegally taken photographs being used to demonstrate "illegal" behaviour by bus drivers is ironic. And amusing.

What gives you the right to break the law to demonstrate others allegedly doing the same?

 

I have read this and other threads and pieces on cycling accidents - especially in Cape Town. The fact is that there is certainly a problem, but until there is mutual respect between cyclists and other road users, nothing good will happen. Accidents will continue to occur and Newton tells us that cyclists will (almost invariably) come off the worst.

 

The majority of reaction to yesterday's tragic accident on this thread has been kneejerk and (perhaps understandably) emotional. Not all GABS drivers are murderers. You know very little of the GABS training programme, yet you make rash assumptions, judgements and statements. Do you think the driver in question did it deliberately? How do you think he feels, having been involved in an accident which took a young man's life? You are looking at this solely from one side. That's unhelpful.

 

Things need to settle down a little if any coherent and progressive response is to come from this incident.

 

Just saying.

 

Anne Observer. (sometime driver, sometime cyclist, not been on a bus for years)

 

Anne, unfortunately you do not sound like someone who spends much time on a bicycle and has had to find ways to avoid being part of the undercarriage of a GA bus. Your opinion certainly would carry FAR more weight had you vaguely indicated this to be the case. There are many people on this site who spend upwards of 10 hours a week riding, training and commuting by bicycle around the whole of the Cape Peninsula. The things we are describing here are not once off issues. It's at the quietest of time in the early morning through peak traffic into the mid morning that we experience these ongoing near misses from bus drivers who seem more intent on seeing how close they can pass without actually hitting you. Then it happens all over again as we go into the afternoon schedule and our different ride times encounter these same practises all over into the evening.

 

Whatever your angle is regarding the legitimacy of how the photographs wereare taken is insignificant in comparison to the life endangering behaviour from these drivers. Heck if it was a choice, I would gladly accept the drivers breaking the law to take photos of us whilst they drove, if it meant they slowed down and overtook when it is appropriate to do so. And that's the crux of this. These drivers are not reponsible enough to take into account the most vulnerable of road users. They simply barrel down their routes and if you happen to be in the way, prepare to be squeezed or find an exit path off the road, mount a pavement or similar, just to survive. If you moved from becoming an observer and became a cycling participator that had to experience this regularly, would you still hold the view you posted today??

Edited October 25, 2012 by Tubehunter

[RTG7]

before i get my rant on - my sincere condolences to the family of the fallen cyclist. I hope and pray that they can make peace with what has happened. Maybe, just maybe something good can come of this and he will forever be remembered as the catalyst for change.

 

is it just me or is it time to get off this thread and onto the streets?

where are the GA bus depots and terminals? what about blockages and disruptions to their operations? i don't say much on the hub, often it's just people yacking and talking the talk. maybe it's time for action!

GA, the city, government are not going to change without proper motivation. This thread is full of examples of trying to communicate, trying to follow the correct channels. the definition of stupidity is doing the same thing over and over again while expecting a different result - time for a different approach.

 

Kieno cummings - Cape 567 - disgusted me today. i enjoy the station and the value it brings but i could not understand the cr*p i had to listen to. it showed the true selfish nature that seems to control the majority of people out there.

 

We as the populace of this country have lost our way, have lost our sense of belonging in the head long rush towards our personal coronation as king **** of turd island. I have given up counting the number of people of walks of life who now believe a red traffic light means "quickly 3 more cars must go through" . Today I stood at a pedestrian crossing with a pram and had to wait 19 cars before someone stopped, obeying the yield for pedestrian sign, and then got aggressive revving to hurry me across.

 

We all sit here and talk to ourselves - the preacher to the choir. Outside, in the real world, nobody gives a damn. without some form of coordinated joint and sustained protest or effort, nothing will change.

 

I don't have the answers, i am just angry, frustrated and sad. I suppose i feel like many do, powerless and fragile. I love my bike, i love everything about cycling - how is we have gotten to the point the point where if i get killed while cycling, it will in all likelihood be rationally explained away as if i shouldn't have been on the road in the first place?

[ccc2]

The irony of illegally taken photographs being used to demonstrate "illegal" behaviour by bus drivers is ironic. And amusing.

What gives you the right to break the law to demonstrate others allegedly doing the same?

 

I have read this and other threads and pieces on cycling accidents - especially in Cape Town. The fact is that there is certainly a problem, but until there is mutual respect between cyclists and other road users, nothing good will happen. Accidents will continue to occur and Newton tells us that cyclists will (almost invariably) come off the worst.

 

The majority of reaction to yesterday's tragic accident on this thread has been kneejerk and (perhaps understandably) emotional. Not all GABS drivers are murderers. You know very little of the GABS training programme, yet you make rash assumptions, judgements and statements. Do you think the driver in question did it deliberately? How do you think he feels, having been involved in an accident which took a young man's life? You are looking at this solely from one side. That's unhelpful.

 

Things need to settle down a little if any coherent and progressive response is to come from this incident.

 

Just saying.

 

Anne Observer. (sometime driver, sometime cyclist, not been on a bus for years)

 

see highlights - training program???? come on if they took in the training they were given maybe they would drive a bit better.

eye witness accounts say that he hooted and then overtook. it was deliberate and unsafe.

[ccc2]

i think its about time that there is a concerted effort on the part of the PPA to take on GA iro their bad drivers.

i know for a fact that Steve Hayward the current ppa chairman has had a few run in with their drivers.

i have been buzzed for years by them on my early morning training rides.

a friend of mine was knocked down by a GA bus on Vissershok - he was lucky , the front of the bus winged him and sent him flying sideways. the excuse, i couldn't miss u becos there was oncoming traffic and the road was narrow.

there was a cyclist (worked at Woolies) killed in the Waterfront 1 Sunday morning on the ring road (cycle lane,double lane, little traffic) never heard what happened to the driver.