Is your Epic training on track - where should you be right now?

[Agteros]

I'm not doing any of the tester events, nor distance rides but I'm proud to state that my epic training is smack bang on target!

 

 

 

 

 

no training, no entry, no epic....

 

 

 

[SwissVan]

"Seeing you only got 3 posts and recently joined you should know that you have to post a pic of your bike on your couch and introduce yourself...."

 

You show me yours and I'll show you mine...

 

Eish....struggling to find my pic, there used to be 2 threads and now dont know where the other one is.

 

Here's the one thread

https://community.bikehub.co.za/topic/11-member-pictures-you-andor-your-bike/

[Enticement]

Anyone can ride at max effort for short periods - I hardly think a determinant of someone's ability at Epic. My response was to the impression created ( perhaps incorrectly on my part) that max effort intervals of 10 minutes were required this far out from the Epic, if ever.

 

For a race of that nature wouldn't sustained efforts and threshold repeats be more likely to deliver the appropriate stimulus of long stages over a multi-day event, as opposed to short all out intervals which would be more appropriate for say a track cyclist?

 

Training for short bursts of acceleration strikes me as odd this far out from epic, perhaps for XC and road cycling it's required to bridge gaps and break away but I cant see huge upside to taking yourself way above threshold in an event like epic for anyone but the top teams.

 

On the literature point: I can find literature anywhere to support all sorts of claims - my point was and remains: do you really think all out efforts are optimal for Epic training? If that's the case, lets have marathoners and Ironman athletes doing 100m repeats rather than the sustained threshold efforts? I'm not saying there is no place for max effort / VO2 training, just struggling to see it being appropriate for guys who don't know exactly what they are doing (lets say outside top 25 teams).

 

Maybe my assumption of what constitutes max-effort should also be clear. It means you cant go any harder :ie max HR. Sorry to disagree with you but endurance sports just don't see long periods of sustained max efforts.

 

Very valid question/argument! By literature I mean clinical academical research published in scientific journals. A simplified and very concise explanation follows:

 

Ability. There are 2 components that constitute your performance and the time you use to prepare for a given performance goal: 1) Ability (the tools you have available); and 2) Conditioning (how much of those tools you actually use). Ability is relatively fixed whereas conditioning can be changed - you can actually get an athlete with lesser ability outperform one with more ability due to his conditioning. In endurance terminology the later is shortly referred to as lactate threshold. The higher I can "shift" my lactate threshold, the closer I can perform to my genetic max ability. This, in turn is determined by how my body can utilize the available energy systems in my body.

 

In-cell energy systems. Your lactate threshold actually serves as "switch" telling your body which energy system can best be applied at any given time - keep in mind that all 3 energy systems are constantly used. Of these 3 systems, during the first few seconds of an activity, the ATP-PCr provides an estimated 36 units (whatever that may be) per time unit, the system where oxygen is more readily available 10 units and the system where oxygen is less available, 16 units. So, if I can condition my brain to be more tolerant for operating more in the zone where oxygen is less "available", I can actually go faster for longer - that partly determines your pacing strategy.

 

Availability of cells, nutrients and oxygen. Another factor that plays a vital role in your pacing strategy is the state of the transport system that must carry everything needed to the cells, the better they will operate. Lastly, the number of muscle cells your brain reserves for emergency purposes impacts vastly - the more it reserves, the fewer cells are available and the harder they must work. This also boils down to how well synchronized the nerves feeding each muscle cell are.

 

Conditioning. The process of conditioning is therefore the manner in which the above is integrated and that is why different training periods, consisting of different areas of focus, is utilized. The difference lies in the time availability for preparation. Low intensity training (LIT) can bring you where you want to be but just takes so much longer. You can literally half the time to achieve your goals through High Intensity Training (HIT), and even perform better. However, HIT requires a sequential process starting with 1) LIT to ensure a well sorted logistical transport system, then 2) you do the one part of HIT whereby you ensure the in-cell chemical processes (energy systems) are sorted, and then 3) you sync your muscle cell contractions.

 

Athletes with time constraints get best results through a careful blend of intensity and time. Many athletes, when starting with prep, struggle with getting their HR up near to their max, and the more they do HIT, the easier it becomes as the brain becomes more tolerant, allowing the pacing cells in the heart to up its tempo. That implies being able to comfortably operate closer to max effort. Now, if you operate between 60&70% of max and you hit a 20% intensity spike (due to the nature of mountain biking) it immediately puts you between 80&90%. Believe you me, during the Epic you will constantly be bombarded with 20-30% intensity spikes, and collectively they will take their toll! That is why you take a lot of strain from you when you can charge your revs and operate at higher intensity with ease ...

[Enticement]

Also to be clear. I'm not trying to be a dick, I'm honestly interested in the viewpoints and picking up tips. So please don't be defensive?

 

I really appreciate your questions and find it challenging to answer without writing essays - and I don't have all the answers but where I get stuck I'll look for answers!

[Enticement]

I'm not doing any of the tester events, nor distance rides but I'm proud to state that my epic training is smack bang on target!

 

 

 

 

 

no training, no entry, no epic....

 

 

 

 

There is no 1-size-fits-all solution! If that works for you, bloody marvelous!! As long as you have a plan that you know will work and that you believe in!

[Cannonball]

Very valid question/argument! By literature I mean clinical academical research published in scientific journals. A simplified and very concise explanation follows:

 

Ability. There are 2 components that constitute your performance and the time you use to prepare for a given performance goal: 1) Ability (the tools you have available); and 2) Conditioning (how much of those tools you actually use). Ability is relatively fixed whereas conditioning can be changed - you can actually get an athlete with lesser ability outperform one with more ability due to his conditioning. In endurance terminology the later is shortly referred to as lactate threshold. The higher I can "shift" my lactate threshold, the closer I can perform to my genetic max ability. This, in turn is determined by how my body can utilize the available energy systems in my body.

 

In-cell energy systems. Your lactate threshold actually serves as "switch" telling your body which energy system can best be applied at any given time - keep in mind that all 3 energy systems are constantly used. Of these 3 systems, during the first few seconds of an activity, the ATP-PCr provides an estimated 36 units (whatever that may be) per time unit, the system where oxygen is more readily available 10 units and the system where oxygen is less available, 16 units. So, if I can condition my brain to be more tolerant for operating more in the zone where oxygen is less "available", I can actually go faster for longer - that partly determines your pacing strategy.

 

Availability of cells, nutrients and oxygen. Another factor that plays a vital role in your pacing strategy is the state of the transport system that must carry everything needed to the cells, the better they will operate. Lastly, the number of muscle cells your brain reserves for emergency purposes impacts vastly - the more it reserves, the fewer cells are available and the harder they must work. This also boils down to how well synchronized the nerves feeding each muscle cell are.

 

Conditioning. The process of conditioning is therefore the manner in which the above is integrated and that is why different training periods, consisting of different areas of focus, is utilized. The difference lies in the time availability for preparation. Low intensity training (LIT) can bring you where you want to be but just takes so much longer. You can literally half the time to achieve your goals through High Intensity Training (HIT), and even perform better. However, HIT requires a sequential process starting with 1) LIT to ensure a well sorted logistical transport system, then 2) you do the one part of HIT whereby you ensure the in-cell chemical processes (energy systems) are sorted, and then 3) you sync your muscle cell contractions.

 

Athletes with time constraints get best results through a careful blend of intensity and time. Many athletes, when starting with prep, struggle with getting their HR up near to their max, and the more they do HIT, the easier it becomes as the brain becomes more tolerant, allowing the pacing cells in the heart to up its tempo. That implies being able to comfortably operate closer to max effort. Now, if you operate between 60&70% of max and you hit a 20% intensity spike (due to the nature of mountain biking) it immediately puts you between 80&90%. Believe you me, during the Epic you will constantly be bombarded with 20-30% intensity spikes, and collectively they will take their toll! That is why you take a lot of strain from you when you can charge your revs and operate at higher intensity with ease ...

 

Fair enough. But I still see the max efforts, to which you refer - to cater for your so called energy spikes, as "icing-on-the-cake", if you cant sustain 75% efforts for 3-4 hours (where I would focus my training efforts) then I personally don't see much point doing max-effort training. But then again, maybe that's why I'm not a coach.

 

Thanks for your explanation, and the time you took to answer my questions. I respectfully disagree (at the moment) but I'm happy to keep an open mind and keep reading what you and others have to say on the subject of Epic type training.

[Enticement]

According to clinical research and from practical experience I found you can save a lot of time if you introduce HIT training in your prep - but like I said : HIT requires a sequential process starting with 1) LIT to ensure a well sorted logistical transport system, then 2) you do the one part of HIT whereby you ensure the in-cell chemical processes (energy systems) are sorted, and then 3) you sync your muscle cell contractions. Bottom line, you should not stick to HIT or LIT type only - the picture explains more:

 

[Wyatt Earp]

@Enticement.

Time for me to get serious and a little honest with you.

Your qualifications were mentioned somewhere here earlier, what qualifications do you have to train people, and in particular long distance events and multi-day events.

 

I honestly see a lot of what you post as googled info and good advice for quick short bursts of races.

Threshold continuously leads to nothing more than burn-out.

[Enticement]

@Enticement.

Time for me to get serious and a little honest with you.

Your qualifications were mentioned somewhere here earlier, what qualifications do you have to train people, and in particular long distance events and multi-day events.

 

I honestly see a lot of what you post as googled info and good advice for quick short bursts of races.

Threshold continuously leads to nothing more than burn-out.

 

My qualifications are briefly mentioned in my profile and should you wish to have more detail you can also use Google. However, experience substantiates qualifications.

 

You are right that if your program does not cater for sufficient recovery, you are at risk for overtraining. That is why it is imperative to continually monitor EPOC and training impact of HIT training session and carefully blend that into a training program. As for the role of "threshold" training in endurance events, one author wrote:

 

"As

Laursen & Jenkins

[published in the Scandinavian Journal of Medicine and Science in Sport in 2010]

state, "an additional increase in sub-maximal exercise training (i.e. volume) does not appear to further enhance either endurance performance or associated variables such as maximal oxygen uptake (VO2max), anaerobic threshold, economy of motion and oxidative muscle enzymes". In citing

Ben Londeree's research

, the authors note that "it appears that once an individual has reached a VO2max >60ml/kg/min, endurance performance is not improved by a further increase in submaximal training volume." This is not meant to downplay the importance of high-volume training, but to highlight that there is a fixed limit for improving fitness by this method alone."

[Wyatt Earp]

My qualifications are briefly mentioned in my profile and should you wish to have more detail you can also use Google. However, experience substantiates qualifications.

 

You are right that if your program does not cater for sufficient recovery, you are at risk for overtraining. That is why it is imperative to continually monitor EPOC and training impact of HIT training session and carefully blend that into a training program. As for the role of "threshold" training in endurance events, one author wrote:

 

"As

Laursen & Jenkins

[published in the Scandinavian Journal of Medicine and Science in Sport in 2010]

state, "an additional increase in sub-maximal exercise training (i.e. volume) does not appear to further enhance either endurance performance or associated variables such as maximal oxygen uptake (VO2max), anaerobic threshold, economy of motion and oxidative muscle enzymes". In citing

Ben Londeree's research

, the authors note that "it appears that once an individual has reached a VO2max >60ml/kg/min, endurance performance is not improved by a further increase in submaximal training volume." This is not meant to downplay the importance of high-volume training, but to highlight that there is a fixed limit for improving fitness by this method alone."

 

 

Thanks for that.

Two things, what will google tell me about YOU ?

I am confused by that one.

Again you simply went and pasted a whole bunch of googled info.

 

My last 2 cents worth, I think you are training people wrong going by what I read from all your quoted posts.

[Goodbadugly]

Thanks for that.

Two things, what will google tell me about YOU ?

I am confused by that one.

Again you simply went and pasted a whole bunch of googled info.

 

My last 2 cents worth, I think you are training people wrong going by what I read from all your quoted posts.

I agree. Lots and lots of technical hoo ha. Makes it sound as if training is some kind of dark art. All kinds of important sounding words like "fartlek". It would not be clever to even THINK of HIT for somebody who wants to ride his first Epic in 2013. It is not even middle Nov yet. One thing to consider is that HIT will only help you if you have already done your miles. You cannot substitute TITS with HIT.

So to stick to the topic and not go , HIT is NOT where where you should be now. You should be on your bike.

Help okes with practical tips. Like ride with the heavier wheels, seatpost and bar the bike came with. Also consider tubes and tire liners to increase the weight of your bike if you do not have hills to train. Always ride with 2 full waterbottles. Even if you only go for a 1 hour ride. The more you suffer now with your LIT, the easier it would be during the race with a lighter bike. (the weight weenies will not like this)

DO NOT overtrain your athletes. DO NOT make them gatvol at this stage. DO NOT demotivate a rookie at this stage. Most of the okes I know did the Epic with TITS. HIT in Feb. And MOTIVATION. Nothing more.

[Enticement]

The Epic, from all angles is an expensive exercise. Ensuring your Epic training is on track leaves you with 4 options (very briefly):

 

Just get on your bike and ride

Pro

• Doesn't cost you a thing
  
• No/little stress in preparation - do what you feel is right (gut-feel based)
  

Cons

• Probable lack of focus
  
• Outcome not guaranteed - hoping you will do enough of the right things right
  

Take advice from the wealth of experience you read on discussion forums

Pro

• Doesn't cost you a thing
  
• It probably worked for someone else
  

Cons

• Filtering of truth (unqualified/unverified advice)
  
• NO personal accountability from the guy giving the advice - if it doesn't work so what!
  

Get an off-the-shelve training program

Pro

• Often very affordable
  
• Offers at least a "basic" planned approach
  

Cons

• Performance progress is determined by the starting point and development path to get you at a specific spot on a specific day, which cannot be the same for everyone
  
• No 2 athletes (even if riding as a team) have the same circumstances, conditions and requirements to train
  

Get an individualized custom-designed training program from a qualified coach with a proven track record

Pro

• Peace of mind for the athlete - goal focused, individualized and tailored plan, in educated & experienced hands
  
• Time-optimized conditioning plan continually adapted should circumstances necessitate deviation from the plan - outcome assured
  

Cons

• Often costly
  
• Requires constant feedback to the coach for verification of plan execution
  

Which option will work best for you, and will your approach work equally well for someone else who has a completely different angle?

[Wyatt Earp]

 

Take advice from the wealth of experience you read on discussion forums

 

Pro

• Doesn't cost you a thing
  
• It probably worked for someone else
  

Cons

• Filtering of truth (unqualified/unverified advice)
  
• NO personal accountability from the guy giving the advice - if it doesn't work so what!
  

 

 

 

 

So true.

[rouxtjie]

So true.

Hehehehe skerp tjom.....skerp

[Enticement]

High intensity interval training (HIIT) must become part of your preparation for the Epic for the simple reason that you will spend lots of time riding above 60-70% of max! When coasting at 60-70% of max, a 20% intensity increase will immediately put at 80-90% of max - if that intensity spike is as result of a hill, and the hill lasts for 3 minutes, doing that 30 times a day means you will be spending at least 90 minutes a day riding at 80-90%. If you have not prepared for that, the last 4 days will be an awful challenge!

 

Best preparation for that is HIIT! Start off by replacing 2 of your normal training sessions a week with 3 intervals at 80-90% of max, each lasting 3 minutes, with a 2 minute easy riding in-between. Gradually increase the 3 to 5 minutes, and remember to warm-up and cool-down.

 

Preparing your body to ride at 80-90% of max with relative comfort will take at least 12 weeks, so start now! Just be cautious - listen to your body and ensure you recover well after these training sessions. You will be surprised at the training impact of these sessions!

[Wyatt Earp]

High intensity interval training (HIIT) must become part of your preparation for the Epic for the simple reason that you will spend lots of time riding above 60-70% of max! When coasting at 60-70% of max, a 20% intensity increase will immediately put at 80-90% of max - if that intensity spike is as result of a hill, and the hill lasts for 3 minutes, doing that 30 times a day means you will be spending at least 90 minutes a day riding at 80-90%. If you have not prepared for that, the last 4 days will be an awful challenge!

 

 

You CLEARLY have never done a long distance event or any event of this magnitude, your heart rate percentage just gets lower and lower as the body fatigues.

High intensity training should be the last thing on ones mind, unless you are going to race for podium or placing.