LCHF - Low Carb High Fat Diet Ver 2

[htone]

You obviously mean 24/8??

Anyway, that is 15-20min away from my place. So count me in.

Ja, sorry. My time-space continuum has been disturbed...

PM me your cell number and we will stay in touch.

[@flexia]

 

 

The mexicans are also the poorer of the 2 nations. Therefore their intake of PUFA's is probably also way higher than the US.

 

This really makes no sense to me. Ray Peat on his website says:

 

“Sugar, by reducing the level of free fatty acids in the body, actually tends to protect against these toxic effects of the PUFA. Diabetes, like cancer, has been known for a long time to be promoted by unsaturated oils in the diet, rather than by sugar. The seed oil industry has been more effective than the sugar industry in lobbying and advertising, and the effects can be seen in the assumptions that shape medical and biological research.”

 

So Ray Peat is saying sugar is protecting the body against PUFA’s effects and that PUFA’s are the cause of diabetes and not sugar ? So by that reasoning, if we all ate more sugar, it would protect us against the harmfull effects of PUFA’s and diabetes would be a thing of the past ? What about all the recent research that someone like Prof Lustig has done to show a direct cause and effect relationship between carbohydrate consumption and diabetes ? Are we to believe that PUFA’s are the “bad guys” and not sugar ?

[Topwine]

Defo sarcastic considering it followed this "But surely using Coca Cola instead of drinking water couldn’t possibly have made all these Mexicans obese? After all, Coca Cola is part of the solution to the obesity epidemic. Their commercials say so all the time and they even educate dietitians about it."

 

Ja, well, actually my comment was sarcastic as well, but nobody seems to get it, must be all the flaxseed ...

[Helpmytrap]

Ja, well, actually my comment was sarcastic as well, but nobody seems to get it, must be all the flaxseed ...

Haha, maybe.

 

But I do agree with you on the PUFA front.

[Topwine]

This really makes no sense to me. Ray Peat on his website says:

 

“Sugar, by reducing the level of free fatty acids in the body, actually tends to protect against these toxic effects of the PUFA. Diabetes, like cancer, has been known for a long time to be promoted by unsaturated oils in the diet, rather than by sugar. The seed oil industry has been more effective than the sugar industry in lobbying and advertising, and the effects can be seen in the assumptions that shape medical and biological research.”

 

So Ray Peat is saying sugar is protecting the body against PUFA’s effects and that PUFA’s are the cause of diabetes and not sugar ? So by that reasoning, if we all ate more sugar, it would protect us against the harmfull effects of PUFA’s and diabetes would be a thing of the past ? What about all the recent research that someone like Prof Lustig has done to show a direct cause and effect relationship between carbohydrate consumption and diabetes ? Are we to believe that PUFA’s are the “bad guys” and not sugar ?

 

As far as I know Dr Robert Lustig have not shown or proven yet that higher carbodydrate consumption causes diabetes. He is a pediatrician, not a scientific researcher. Carbohydrates includes sugar and starches. You have to control for both, as well as other things in diet, or your hormonal profile. It is not as simple matter of how many carbs, and then by association draw the conclusion (as proof) that it causes diabetes.

 

Diabetes, by definiton as the inability of the body's cells to properly oxidise and use glucose, is not caused by sugar according to Ray Peat. PUFA's block the mitochondrial's function to properly utilize glucose and instead to form lactate. Estrogen, lack of CO2 and other stress hormones also contribute to this process. When this has already happened, or is continually happening, then of course sugar will tend to build up in the blood or get converted to fat via excess insulin secretion.

 

There are a lot more articles on his website explaining these processes .

[Topwine]

Haha, maybe.

 

But I do agree with you on the PUFA front.

 

Interesting 2 min video explaining how quickly PUFA's oxidises and what happens to it if left exposed to oxygen. Interesting in the end how he shows that coconut oil acts as a solvent for the oxidised PUF !

 

[@flexia]

There are a lot more articles on his website explaining these processes .

 

Indeed there is interesting and sometimes very conflicting information out there.

When I was researching foods that could assist with the control of Type 2 Diabetes for a research project last year, I found this study that actually says whole plant foods rich in PUFA’s help protect the body against Type 2 Diabetes and can actually assist in the reduction of “broken” DNA. Which, of course, is completely the opposite of what Ray Peat says ! Just shows, we need to read and read as widely as possible.

Pufa and Type2.pdf

[Topwine]

Indeed there is interesting and sometimes very conflicting information out there.

When I was researching foods that could assist with the control of Type 2 Diabetes for a research project last year, I found this study that actually says whole plant foods rich in PUFA’s help protect the body against Type 2 Diabetes and can actually assist in the reduction of “broken” DNA. Which, of course, is completely the opposite of what Ray Peat says ! Just shows, we need to read and read as widely as possible.

Pufa and Type2.pdf

 

Indeed, and as Ray Peat is explaing below, why was the control group not given anti-oxidants as well and why was their diet not made free of PUFA's ? The short time of such experiments is also of concern since short term benefits ito anti-inflamation does not necessarily contribute to long term health or benefits.

 

One way to evaluate published studies is to see whether they tell you everything you would need to know to replicate the experiment, and whether the information they provide is adequate for drawing the conclusions they draw, for example whether they compared the experimental subjects to proper control subjects. With just a few minimal critical principles of this sort, most "scientific" publications on nutrition, endocrinology, cancer and other degenerative diseases are seen to be unscientific. In nutritional experiments with fish oil, controls must receive similar amounts of vitamins A, D, E, and K, and should include fat free or "EFA" deficient diets for comparison.

[@flexia]

Indeed, and as Ray Peat is explaing below, why was the control group not given anti-oxidants as well and why was their diet not made free of PUFA's ?

Because then the control group would no longer be the control group

[Topwine]

Because then the control group would no longer be the control group

 

but then you dont know what the difference in PUFA or anti oxidant use was between the 2 groups and you therefore cannot really claim a "control" group as the vegetable oil was not the only variable ...

 

Statistics 101

[@flexia]

but then you dont know what the difference in PUFA or anti oxidant use was between the 2 groups and you therefore cannot really claim a "control" group as the vegetable oil was not the only variable ...

 

Statistics 101

 

The way I read the report is that the two groups were baselined through a battery of tests, and the intervention group was the only group to add vegetable oil and additional veggies, while the control group did not add anything, i.e. continued on their standard diet. Markers were then again checked via the tests as time progressed and from everything I read this was a well conducted study, which has been accepted into medical literature. But let's leave that there, just now they'll have to change the thread name to the PUFA thread...

[htone]

Lots of questions in the past about what to eat on LCHF and what types of dishes to prepare. This is quite a nifty website when it comes to LCHF recipes and she even has a cool idea for LCHF pasta, if you simply cannot go without Lasagna anymore

 

http://www.lchfmalta.com/

 

@Francois - do you still pin links to the top of the thread ?

[P.A.K.]

Lots of questions in the past about what to eat on LCHF and what types of dishes to prepare. This is quite a nifty website when it comes to LCHF recipes and she even has a cool idea for LCHF pasta, if you simply cannot go without Lasagna anymore

 

http://www.lchfmalta.com/

 

@Francois - do you still pin links to the top of the thread ?

I have also found Linda's LC Menu useful

[htone]

@tombeej - had a long chat to the wise old man at Biltong Warehouse today about preventing that mold from appearing on the billies. He says Potassium is the answer and you only use a minute amount. One teaspoon per every 20kg of raw meat is enough to keep things fresh he says. So for your typical batch of e.g. 5kg of meat a quarter teaspoon should do it. He is against using salpeter (potassium nitrate) as he says that may sometimes result in a white powdery deposit on the meat.

 

Use it, don't use it !

[htone]

I have also found Linda's LC Menu useful

[Sniffie]

@tombeej - had a long chat to the wise old man at Biltong Warehouse today about preventing that mold from appearing on the billies. He says Potassium is the answer and you only use a minute amount. One teaspoon per every 20kg of raw meat is enough to keep things fresh he says. So for your typical batch of e.g. 5kg of meat a quarter teaspoon should do it. He is against using salpeter (potassium nitrate) as he says that may sometimes result in a white powdery deposit on the meat.

 

Use it, don't use it !

I have used salpeter a lot on biltong in the past, in recent times I have left it out. I have noticed the white powdery deposit sometimes on biltong made with or without salpter. My explanation is that it is the (excess) salt crystallising on the outside of the meat as it gets drier. I cannot think that the minute amount of salpetre (10 g on 10 kg of biltong) can leave a white deposit. Salpteter does give the billies a nice red color though.