carbon29er Posted February 27, 2014 Share R6 per rider (and i didn't forget the noughts) every other organiser of races in rsa pay the levy & this includes the organisers of the winter league , lights by linea etc etc whose events are minute iro income generated when compared to events organised by ppa.wrt other sports - they belong to their national body and they are taking part in games organised by their national body, cast your mind back to Stormers vs Saracens or Ajax vs Liverpool. both games outlawed by their respective sports national body.You forget calendar fees, day licence or annual licence fees paid by the rider and this R6 tax. So in all, having an event sanctioned by CSA adds costs to the entry fee for EVERY participant although only a few, ie the pros, benefit from having a CSA presence. At a typical non league funride with 2,000 participants, the extra costs for the organiser for absolutely no benefit is thousands and thousands of rondts. The court found that CSA has no right to insist on the organisers paying this tax. Even the UCI has suspended their stupid rule about sanctioned events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc2 Posted February 27, 2014 Share looks like we will never agree - but my mind just boggles that the ppa go to court so they don't have to pay R6.00 plus a few cents (calendar fees are R250 per event) per recreational cyclist but they subsidise every event R20 000 for timing participants who don't need timing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJR Posted February 27, 2014 Share looks like we will never agree................... No, I think we all agree that one of the two organisations behaved idiotically. Where we differ is only on the little point of which one it is! (Lighten up, it's Friday and only 1 week to go before our most favourite ride ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stretch Posted February 27, 2014 Share looks like we will never agree - but my mind just boggles that the ppa go to court so they don't have to pay R6.00 plus a few cents (calendar fees are R250 per event) per recreational cyclist but they subsidise every event R20 000 for timing participants who don't need timing. That s kind of what my comment a few pushes back was about. But it goes back to the long standing rivalry between ppa and csa. Huge waste of money in my book walkerr 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boerklong Posted February 27, 2014 Share Whoever can organize whatever where they want. I for one will only take part where ppa runs the show... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy Posted February 27, 2014 Share No, I think we all agree that one of the two organisations behaved idiotically. Where we differ is only on the little point of which one it is! I think that the Supreme Court answered that one... Blackbeard and Java001 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJR Posted February 28, 2014 Share I think that the Supreme Court answered that one... Is it "shoot straight Friday"? eddy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkerr Posted February 28, 2014 Share Huge waste of money in my book Agreed. Rights and wrongs aside - money left the sport here that could have gone to help promote and develop cycling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JA-Q001 Posted February 28, 2014 Share Just a small thought. Either P&P or Momentum sponsors basically only the prize money for the Argus. Don't know which one, but lets say its P&P. (This is just an example) That prize money is ranging somewhere around R250,000.00! This prize money is only for the racing CAT's that forms about 5% (all numbers are thumb sucked, but can be close) of the entire race. Now, P&P don't just get that out of the air, they have a sponsoring subsistence that they generate out of their sales, this means that you add to that subsistence each time you buy something there, meaning that your groceries are 1% more expensive because they are sponsoring the prize money for the race. Now, are you gonna cry at P&P because they are giving money to people that you have nothing to do with, not even mentioning the events that you don't even take part in? I guess not. But maybe you will argue that the two cannot be compared and that I am grabbing at straws (or whatever), but in the end, its the same thing. Edit: spelling and grammar (that still sucks) Edited February 28, 2014 by JA-Q001 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slabs Posted February 28, 2014 Share Agreed. Rights and wrongs aside - money left the sport here that could have gone to help promote and develop cycling. Maybe, but losing money to a few lawyers to right some wrongs is better than money landing in a few fat cats pockets. But then again I like to dream... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkerr Posted February 28, 2014 Share Maybe, but losing money to a few lawyers to right some wrongs is better than money landing in a few fat cats pockets. But then again I like to dream... I disagree if the fat cats are still there, you didn't solve the problem, you just spent money. If you really wanted to solve the problem you'd go after the fat cats - get rid of them, prosecute them, clean the whole system up. This just masks it - like the whole UCI silently ignoring doping - it'll come out eventually, in a worse and bigger way. The only way to fix it is do it properly. Eject anyone from the governing body who is incompetent or looking to line their own pockets, and put in place a structure that works from grass roots and social level all the way up to national support of Pro riders. That is the only way to actually right the wrong .... this is not even a band aid, the root issues still remain, if anything they have now been made worse I also like to dream - but if you're gonna dream, dream big Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stretch Posted February 28, 2014 Share Maybe, but losing money to a few lawyers to right some wrongs is better than money landing in a few fat cats pockets. But then again I like to dream... correct me if I am wrong, but i understood that those same lawyers are involved in the PPA administration? edit:tense change Edited February 28, 2014 by Stretch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slabs Posted February 28, 2014 Share Problem here is the PPA tried to solve amicably and then had to defend their turf. I am in no way trying to make out that they are angels, but the record of SA sport administrators speak for itself. Hopefully actions like this will make people stand up to the fat cats, but that will not happen. Look at the record of sport administration in general - one cannot say FIFA, Olympics, UCI, etc are angels either. This is a worldwide problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marko35s Posted February 28, 2014 Share Just a small thought. Either P&P or Momentum sponsors basically only the prize money for the Argus. Don't know which one, but lets say its P&P. (This is just an example) That prize money is ranging somewhere around R250,000.00! This prize money is only for the racing CAT's that forms about 5% (all numbers are thumb sucked, but can be close) of the entire race. Now, P&P don't just get that out of the air, they have a sponsoring subsistence that they generate out of their sales, this means that you add to that subsistence each time you buy something there, meaning that your groceries are 1% more expensive because they are sponsoring the prize money for the race. Now, are you gonna cry at P&P because they are giving money to people that you have nothing to do with, not even mentioning the events that you don't even take part in? I guess not. But maybe you will argue that the two cannot be compared and that I am grabbing at straws (or whatever), but in the end, its the same thing. Edit: spelling and grammar (that still sucks)It simply is not the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJR Posted February 28, 2014 Share .....................the PPA tried to solve amicably and then had to defend their turf. ............... This really is what the court case was all about! Shall we put it in school ground language? The bully tried to take the quiet kids' lunch money and kick him in the nuts. The quiet kid said "please leave me alone". The bully said "I will not". The quiet kid ran to the principal, complained, there was a disciplinary hearing and the bully got suspended. It is about RIGHT and WRONG! Nothing else. eddy and Blackbeard 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stretch Posted February 28, 2014 Share This really is what the court case was all about! Shall we put it in school ground language? The bully tried to take the quiet kids' lunch money and kick him in the nuts. The quiet kid said "please leave me alone". The bully said "I will not". The quiet kid ran to the principal, complained, there was a disciplinary hearing and the bully got suspended. It is about RIGHT and WRONG! Nothing else.But what was the bullying? Saying that the biggest event in the country should really be sanctioned by the administrating body? And therefore contribute to that body? That would be like the comrades saying up yours to ASA... And being it like a big fun run.... Or the midmar mile saying up yours to SSA.... you see where I am going.. What makes ppa so special that the argus does not have to contribute to CSA.... maybe because they want that r6 in their own pockets? Edited February 28, 2014 by Stretch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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