CSA / PPA. The Heat is on

[Icycling]

<p>

<br />

Here is the Crux, how many took part in the winter league What sponsorship would be arranged to cater for the Funride volumes to cater for costs of traffic etc. remember winter league is normally on a short circuit in the sticks where cost of road closures and traffic are way less.<br />

<br />

Truth be told, if you tried to organize the spring and summer league racing, I do not believe you will get the turnout you think for the following reasons:<br />

1. Funriders are afraid of "racing" as it is hard.<br />

2. Funriders want to compete, but against their peers, yes it is nice to compare against the elites, but it is not really that important. It is more important to say I beat Joe soap.<br />

3. You do not have the critical mass to cover the event costs, unless you have the races out in the sticks on a short course. Funriders want to say I did that route from here to there and there and there and and... not I rode around a 10km lap and got lapped 5 times and did not know who was where etc.<br />

4. The elite riders bitch no end when the long route meets up with the short route and they don't get out of the way and, and, and. Think of this happening continually from about 20km for the next 50 to 100km?<br />

just a few thoughts.........<br />

<br />

So I believe if you do go the "pro" route it will stay with the same volume of attendees as you had this winter league so PPA will not feel it.<br />

<br />

My 2c's<br />

</p>

 

slow connection sorry - reply below

Edited June 13, 2013 by Icycling

[Icycling]

slow connection sorry

Edited June 13, 2013 by Icycling

[Icycling]

slow connection sorry

Edited June 13, 2013 by Icycling

[Icycling]

Seems like my connection is slow so trying 1 more time in 2 post!

 

Yes fun rides and racing probably should not be hold together. But they also can!

 

Yes racing would be on shorter route / circuit racing. Cost would be a lot cheaper than a long road route and getting closed circuit to traffic maybe even possible! Bring racing to the pubic maybe even possible and thinking back, the Giro del Capo crit in Cape Town maybe a Rondebosch common cirt - this UCT club use to organize. Their was even a circuit race including Ladies mile, Spaanschemat river road and Firgrove way - Peninsula cycling club. This leads to cycling awareness to the masses - maybe even some residents will put a braai on the door step if advertise and well and down the line like happen in Europe put some spot prime up! After all it is free live sports entertainment.

 

Yes I know of some people willing to put up money for this and guess what 10 event a sponsorship / donation of R100 000 would probably result in a guaranteed prize fund of R10 000 per event as the entry would cover the rest and cover more (WPCA has already proven this - even in WINTER) - remember the entry is not been used to support any charity but to support racing cycling!

 

I recon R10 000 per event and less than R100 entry fee would probably draw all the current PPA league riders to the (WPCA) race held at the same time as the PPA event. Added bonuses possible road closure, if a large (relatively speaking) sponsor we found for the event TV coverage etc.

 

If this were too happen and their a 50% chance of it happening as many of the league rider are just sick and tired of the disrespect PPA have shown them, where would this leave the PPA fun rides? Here a potential options:

 

1. League rider are about 300 of the funride entry - the only guaranteed part week in advance excepting the 1st event.

 

2. Many league riders have 1 or 2 tag along with them who ride the fun ride sometimes the shorter route. I would put a number of between 75 and 150 riders come to the fun rides as tag along to the league riders per fun ride

 

3. Some Fun riders see value in riding the fun rides a they can compare their time to the winning time - I would put again anything between 75 and 250 fun riders who do this per fun ride.

 

So the fun ride numbers would be on avg. 500 riders down - would the avg fun ride organizer still find it profitable to put on the these event? Probably not! Could PPA put a minimum of R100 000 to a prize purse and stop this happening without really even affecting their budget - YES. Why don't they - EGO of some committee members! Would this amount of money bankrupt the PPA definitely NOT - double or triple (R300 000) still would not but would offer some really good racing in conjunction with the fun ride. A very nice win win situation and would CSA and PPA still even been in this fight if this were to have happened along with the Giro del Capo? I cannot answer that!

 

So lets say this happens - which as stated may well happen - this is without the UCI / CSA / SASCOC saying it has too - its just the racing cyclist deciding they deserve better - and they do! What will PPA actually be doing apart from hoarding even more money? Now for those who don't think the racing cyclist bring anything to the party and only TAKE and do nothing for the Fun Rider / cycling - here a letter I sent to PPA committee at the beginning of the year - I do believe it is true!

[gogo@]

So does anyone know what the fee is per rider?

OK, we're organising an event at the moment, and this is how it seems to break down for us.

1. Non-licensed riders pay R35 day license

2. Every participant's entry fee is levied another R6

3. Commissaire costs of travel and accommodation are also for our expense

4. There is a fee for having the commissaire present... possibly negotiable...???

5. We pay CSA R500 for event insurance (not bad, not bad)

I think that's it. The main issue for us is how much of this money stays in our area, for local/regional cycling development, because it seems the system is exceptionally top-heavy, besides it's lack of focus on the very people we are trying to attract into cycling as a sport.

So far, PPA gets my vote, but I am really keen to see what CSA can do for us on the day...

 

COrrect me if I'm wrong -- but this is how I understand it

Edited June 13, 2013 by gogo@

[Icycling]

An email I sent to PPA EXCO on the 7th Jan 2013

Hi All,

 

In the past 6 months, PRO cycling has attained headline news worldwide for all the wrong reasons. Lance Armstrong and David George doping and now Burry Stander. From this, one conclusion can be drawn: if you want to see cycling in the news headlines, you need Pro cyclists involved, whether it is positive or negative.

 

So much attention has been given to drugs in cycling worldwide, even here in the RSA, and I hope that similar attention will be given to road cycle safety, due to the recent death of Burry Stander.

 

Why does the PPA Committee see no merit in funding road racing? Recently, I asked for a mere R50 000 to improve the racing eliminate for our PPA spring league 2012 yet this was turned down By EXCO - at the recommendation of Man / Fin. Hopefully, Burry Stander’s death will not be in vain and will really jumpstart an effective road safety campaign. In addition, the vulnerability of cyclists on the public road has been highlighted to fellow road users. The involvement of the Cycling Pro's could make a very positive impact on the further development of effective safety measures.

 

 

 

The sad loss of a high profile cyclist has done far more for public awareness than any other campaign. For example PPA: spending R200 000 on a UCT student to try and establish what should be the required overtaking distance to a cyclist; If my memory serves me well about R75 000 on bus branding; about R50 000 on bumper stickers showing the Cyclist stay alive at 1,5m sticker etc; yet the PPA seem to have ZERO vision in understand the need for funding needs which occur in Pro cycling eg awareness of safety. Yes, Burry came 3rd in the Giro del Capo (a PPA owned event) yet a few years back, PPA did not see the merit in continuing with it. In terms of public awareness, the event did a lot for cycling because of the high profile of the cyclist / the international teams it attracted. Think of the size of the crowds that use to come out to watch the criterium around District 6 and the 5.5km hill climb up Signal hill.

 

 

When Pedal Power set up this Non-Profit Organisation, Articles of Association or a Constitution have been set up which describe its purpose and the vision. It is meaningless to have all that money in reserve, if Pedal Power does see fit to use the capital power that they have in order to promote these goals. Considering this lack of commitment to achieve these goals, it may be appropriate for the members to approach the High Court and have Pedal Power disbanded.

http://www.pedalpower.org.za/about-ppa/constitution-governance/

 

EXCO has plenty of money in reserve funds. Please, seriously consider using some or all of it to promote safety awareness effectively in the forums or with people who have the same vision. Pedal Power is in a powerful position financially to do something about the urgent need for road safety for cyclists.

 

Here is the link to a poll I put on the hub a while back. Please note what most people feel about all that reserve funding!

 

https://community.bikehub.co.za/topic/122825-ppa-how-much-funding-should-the-association-retain-annually-ie-not-spend-on-cycling/

 

Regards

 

Peter Wheeler

 

The Burry Stander Giro del Capo in honor of all cyclists who have lost their live on the road - funded by PPA. Committee think about that - have some Vision! Burry Stander has basically become a martyr!

[Stretch]

Are you sure about this? That there is no other cost to event organizers, besides the R35 day license for non-licensed riders, to have CSA there?

no there is - there is a fee per rider that gets paid to CSA

 

So does anyone know what the fee is per rider?

 

i think it is R3 per rider...but it might be R4.50

[Stretch]

OK, we're organising an event at the moment, and this is how it seems to break down for us.

1. Non-licensed riders pay R35 day license

2. Every participant's entry fee is levied another R6

3. Commissaire costs of travel and accommodation are also for our expense

4. There is a fee for having the commissaire present... possibly negotiable...???

5. We pay CSA R500 for event insurance (not bad, not bad)

I think that's it. The main issue for us is how much of this money stays in our area, for local/regional cycling development, because it seems the system is exceptionally top-heavy, besides it's lack of focus on the very people we are trying to attract into cycling as a sport.

So far, PPA gets my vote, but I am really keen to see what CSA can do for us on the day...

 

COrrect me if I'm wrong -- but this is how I understand it

 

Thanks

 

i did not realise you paid for commisier subsistence cost. I am pretty sure event organisers don't pay for them to be there though. also did not realise it was as high as R6...i am pretty sure down here in kzn it is R4.50

Edited June 13, 2013 by Stretch

[big.mamma]

So does anyone know what the fee is per rider?

 

Commasiares come at a steep prize easily between R 15000 and R 40 000 per races must also pay for accommodation, catering and travel. Paid by the organiser. Some make a living from it travelling all over getting paid and treated.

 

The organiser pay calendar fees as much as R 5000 per race. They pay R 6 per rider to the provincial body and CSA. R6 gets split. Day license is R 35. Roughly R 5 goes to the organisers.

 

Even though this is paid the yearly income for CSA is nothing to write home about. There is no money to do all the things they need to do.

 

Would like to see the comparison between the income and expenditure statements of CSA, 94.7 and PPA.

 

Cycling is the cash COW of many businesses who present races for "charity". What percentage go to charity and what percentage to the organisers and what to CSA. You are to happy to part with your money so that the organisers can get the bulk a bit to CSA and a bit to Charity. But very little goes back in cycling to promote your sport to send people overseas. To do development, etc.

['Dale]

Post 156 by Velouria

 

SUPERB

[madmarc]

Commasiares come at a steep prize easily between R 15000 and R 40 000 per races must also pay for accommodation, catering and travel.

 

Whaaaaaaat!!!! you have got to be kidding me. surely it must be a lot less for a small 1500 rider field MTB race!!!! because all he does is tell everyone not to litter; stay on the demarkated track; and remove your go-pro from your helmet.

 

I'm gonna apply for a race Comm. position on Monday... i mean Tuesday, Mondays a holiday!

[Stretch]

Whaaaaaaat!!!! you have got to be kidding me. surely it must be a lot less for a small 1500 rider field MTB race!!!! because all he does is tell everyone not to litter; stay on the demarkated track; and remove your go-pro from your helmet.

 

I'm gonna apply for a race Comm. position on Monday... i mean Tuesday, Mondays a holiday!

 

ja some misinformation there...as is your interpretation of what the race comm does

[Tubehunter]

 

 

Commasiares come at a steep prize easily between R 15000 and R 40 000 per races must also pay for accommodation, catering and travel. Paid by the organiser. Some make a living from it travelling all over getting paid and treated.

 

The organiser pay calendar fees as much as R 5000 per race. They pay R 6 per rider to the provincial body and CSA. R6 gets split. Day license is R 35. Roughly R 5 goes to the organisers.

 

Even though this is paid the yearly income for CSA is nothing to write home about. There is no money to do all the things they need to do.

 

Would like to see the comparison between the income and expenditure statements of CSA, 94.7 and PPA.

 

Cycling is the cash COW of many businesses who present races for "charity". What percentage go to charity and what percentage to the organisers and what to CSA. You are to happy to part with your money so that the organisers can get the bulk a bit to CSA and a bit to Charity. But very little goes back in cycling to promote your sport to send people overseas. To do development, etc.

 

Whether you like to admit it or not, the PPA sell a service that the overwhelming majority of cyclists in the Western Cape subscribe to. What do we as recreational (thanks Velouria) cyclists want from an event?? You guessed it! Most of the show that the PPA puts on. It's what drags us out of the bed on Saturday and Sunday mornings throughout the year. How awesome to be spoilt for choice on almost every weekend of the year! Is there room for improvement?? Hell yes! The world moves forward!

 

I can understand why the PPA don't want to get into the serious races. There is already a calendar of these events hosted! Carbon explained nicely that the PPA paid the monies for the league riders to CSA, who require officials such as a commissaire and the like to confirm UCI standards for the pseudo professional hopefuls and other related legalities during and after the serious side of the race is done. But why should Joe Soap pay this?? Simply because I'm in the same event as a bunch of pros?? What are all the officials and their presence going to do for me over and above what the organizers and PPA are already doing??? I'm like the majority of us out there. Past my prime, but still giving it horns to the best of my ability and hopefully take down some of my riding and training buddies at the odd event! Do we care whether it's UCI sanctioned?? Yup, you guessed it! We just want to ride our bikes!

Edited June 13, 2013 by Tubehunter

[(Deon)]

Anyone ridden Oak valley, Thandi trails, etc? PPA money. Materials in Tokai? PPA money. BMX tracks in various locations around Cape Town? PPA money. New BMX tracks being planned in more locations around Cape Town? PPA money. New singletrack and jeeptrack maintenance on Table Mountain North? PPA money. The proposed peninsula route starting at Signal Hill and ending at Signal Hill via (eventually) Cape point? Driven by a member of PPA Exco. The TMMTB Forum working to professionally revise the EMP to bring the activity of MTB to a formal and binding agreement with SANParks... one of the founding members? Yup, PPA.

 

There's more...

[Icycling]

Without CSA membership I am precluded from participating in "sanctioned" funrides held in provinces other than the Western Cape, where membership of CSA is unnecessary and pointless. CSA is a bully, and bullies deserve a bloody nose!

 

PPA gets my vote!

Edited June 13, 2013 by Icycling

[Icycling]

Anyone ridden Oak valley, Thandi trails, etc? PPA money. Materials in Tokai? PPA money. BMX tracks in various locations around Cape Town? PPA money. New BMX tracks being planned in more locations around Cape Town? PPA money. New singletrack and jeeptrack maintenance on Table Mountain North? PPA money. The proposed peninsula route starting at Signal Hill and ending at Signal Hill via (eventually) Cape point? Driven by a member of PPA Exco. The TMMTB Forum working to professionally revise the EMP to bring the activity of MTB to a formal and binding agreement with SANParks... one of the founding members? Yup, PPA.

 

There's more...

 

Thats where we may differ - PPA money or money PPA has from the Cape Argus Pick 'n Pay cycle tour?

 

I am a roadie - done 30 Cycles tours - I don't ride MTB or BMX - I would like to see at 50 % of the cycle tour money end back in the road cycling community!

 

Please list what extra PPA is doing for road riding / racing. I above have already list their spending on road safety and really not a lot or enough!