MotoGP

[Pikey]

A rider does not develop a bike, engineers does.

without riders input the engineers could not and do not develop a bike.

[Iwan Kemp]

MM had the "advantage" of running 3rd and not too much to lose by pitting before the Yamaha's and in doing so going for the win.

 

Rossi was looking over his shoulder to cover Lorenzo off, but (with hindsight on our side) should have pitted AT LEAST one lap earlier. 

 

As a F1 follower I love how it's up to the rider to feel things out. Yes, the pit board helps, but ultimately they make that call. Should a F1 driver dare stay out longer than what he was told there will be hell.

[Wannabe]

A rider does not develop a bike, engineers does.

 

With the riders input, yes.

How else do they know what works for the rider or not.

Riders has got different riding styles and preferences. Not even Vale or JL's bikes are the same.

They will struggle if one had to ride the others bike "out of the box"

[Pikey]

without riders input the engineers could not and do not develop a bike.

not one that's competitive anyway.

[Patchelicious]

A rider does not develop a bike, engineers does.

Ai..

[Pikey]

MM had the "advantage" of running 3rd and not too much to lose by pitting before the Yamaha's and in doing so going for the win.

 

Rossi was looking over his shoulder to cover Lorenzo off, but (with hindsight on our side) should have pitted AT LEAST one lap earlier. 

 

As a F1 follower I love how it's up to the rider to feel things out. Yes, the pit board helps, but ultimately they make that call. Should a F1 driver dare stay out longer than what he was told there will be hell.

i agree with you about Rossi should of pitted earlier. I was shouting at the tv,but in hindsight if Rossi had pitted would jl have pushed that hard and still made a mistake. Who knows maybe the doctor was hoping,maybe blind luck. But it worked for vale.

[Patchelicious]

i agree with you about Rossi should of pitted earlier. I was shouting at the tv,but in hindsight if Rossi had pitted would jl have pushed that hard and still made a mistake. Who knows maybe the doctor was hoping,maybe blind luck. But it worked for vale.

Hear me out...

 

I think Rossi knew that by making Jorge make the first move, he would shift the pressure to him.

 

Jorge was waiting for Rossi to pit, thought he would, Jorge pitted out of frustration. Yes, he then would have had an extra lap at higher pace, but was then under pressure.

 

Rossi knew Jorge was waiting for him to pit first, and if Jorge had waited a lap or two more, then there would also not be a chance of Jorge making the time gap up and Rossi could have done the last 6 laps on wets and Jorge would not have had the time to catch him. At 8 seconds a lap he would need at least 6 laps to catch him again.

 

If Rossi pitted ahead of Lorenzo, Lorenzo would just have followed him into the pits with a 1.5 second deficit and could have fought back on the dry tyres.

 

Was a lesson in chess from the wise old man.

Edited September 14, 2015 by Patchelicious

[mtbride]

Biggest budget by miles, largest RnD team and he cant develop a bike.... shame.

If the Yamaha is so much better than the Honda, maybe he should switch.

 

So you're saying it's not easier bike to ride on the limit ... not sure we're watching the same series then.

 

Compare the results of all other Honda riders vs all other Yamaha riders

 

Go read motomatters, one of the guys who actaully knows what he is talking about

 

https://motomatters.com/analysis/2015/05/17/2015_le_mans_motogp_sunday_round_up_why_.html

[Wannabe]

But he still allowed MM to take a win.

 

That I don't like......  

[forkie]

Hear me out...

 

I think Rossi knew that by making Jorge make the first move, he would shift the pressure to him.

 

Jorge was waiting for Rossi to pit, thought he would, Jorge pitted out of frustration. Yes, he then would have had an extra lap at higher pace, but was then under pressure.

 

Rossi knew Jorge was waiting for him to pit first, and if Jorge had waited a lap or two more, then there would also not be a chance of Jorge making the time gap up and Rossi could have done the last 6 laps on wets and Jorge would not have had the time to catch him. At 8 seconds a lap he would need at least 6 laps to catch him again.

 

If Rossi pitted ahead of Lorenzo, Lorenzo would just have followed him into the pits with a 1.5 second deficit and could have fought back on the dry tyres.

 

Was a lesson in chess from the wise old man.

exactly. otherwise rossi would not have passed JL, but would have sat behind him waiting for him to make the decision

[Patchelicious]

So you're saying it's not easier bike to ride on the limit ... not sure we're watching the same series then.

 

Compare the results of all other Honda riders vs all other Yamaha riders

 

Go read motomatters, one of the guys who actaully knows what he is talking about

 

https://motomatters.com/analysis/2015/05/17/2015_le_mans_motogp_sunday_round_up_why_.html

No, I am saying using the bike as an excuse in not a valid argument when trying to say he is the best MotoGP rider. For him to be considered a great, he will need to learn to develop a bike like all the greats did.

 

Now please dont start a "so you are saying" debate. I am quite clear in what I am saying.

[Wannabe]

So you're saying it's not easier bike to ride on the limit ... not sure we're watching the same series then.

 

Compare the results of all other Honda riders vs all other Yamaha riders

 

Go read motomatters, one of the guys who actaully knows what he is talking about

 

https://motomatters.com/analysis/2015/05/17/2015_le_mans_motogp_sunday_round_up_why_.html

 

 

Yamaha has traditionaly been the better handling bike (since about 1982 when King Kenny persisted with the first V4 engined Yammy and developed a frame around it that could tame the beast) This is where a riders input when developing comes in. He tells the engineers what's needed, and they then develope/build it.

 

Honda has been the one with the higher top speed, but what's the use of being 10000km/h faster than your opposition when you can't hang with them around the twisties?

[Patchelicious]

But he still allowed MM to take a win.

 

That I don't like......  

He could have gotten hot headed and try and chase him down, but would have crashed and then would be no different to MM

[mtbride]

Ai..

 

My comment sounded dumb, I just meant they give the engineers a direction to go in, but what comes out on the other side might not be exactly what they wanted, or maybe they pushed it too far, like what has happened this year to MM.

[forkie]

for me the "greatest rider" badge belongs to the person with the most entertaining post win celebrations.

 

Therefore young Rossi wins hands down

 

[Pikey]

Hear me out...

 

I think Rossi knew that by making Jorge make the first move, he would shift the pressure to him.

 

Jorge was waiting for Rossi to pit, thought he would, Jorge pitted out of frustration. Yes, he then would have had an extra lap at higher pace, but was then under pressure.

 

Rossi knew Jorge was waiting for him to pit first, and if Jorge had waited a lap or two more, then there would also not be a chance of Jorge making the time gap up and Rossi could have done the last 6 laps on wets and Jorge would not have had the time to catch him. At 8 seconds a lap he would need at least 6 laps to catch him again.

 

If Rossi pitted ahead of Lorenzo, Lorenzo would just have followed him into the pits with a 1.5 second deficit and could have fought back on the dry tyres.

 

Was a lesson in chess from the wise old man.

well put,master tactician indeed