Mamba rears its head - Tokai

[Flowta]

Deon and his 4 merry men. The guys that were maintaining the trail rather well until the embargo hit them and forced them to find alternative employment.

 

To a degree, Tim, you're right. But the fact is that for a period of 3 months there has been ZERO maintenance, through no fault of Parks (a divert on Vasbyt isn't maintenance - it's a divert due to safety reasons) and that has an effect on the trail - especially when the trail in question hadn't yet been lined with clay.

 

If there were maintenance before this - there wouldn't have been the problem of encroaching growth or dangerous obstacles. Trails would have been lined with something, and the growth would have been cut back...

• It's been 2 months since the AGM.
  
• How many times were they up there?
  
• If they had been up there as many times a month as you have previously told me, the trails would have been in a way better state than before.
  
• What would the trails have been lined with?
  
• Who supervised these guys (or were they left to their own devices)?
  

 

Deon had some guys that were up there s few times a week and it seemed to help.

A couple of times I pointed out stuff that needed looking at or attending to and it was fixed the next day (and yes I do spend an unhealthy amount of time up there )

 

Yes, you do! I'm jealous!

[Flowta]

Dave, they may have failed in the terms of the burn, but to link the delay of the burn to the lack of maintenance is laughable. Yes - final trail features were left off and not put in (as well as final trail direction) until the burn was completed, but that is linked to the creation of trails. Not maintenance of trails.

 

I repeat - the burn has fokkol to do with maintenance. It does, however, have everything to do with the fact that we were waiting for the burn to happen before putting final features in.

 

The amount of alien growth can be directly attributed to the lack of burn.

 

Rode the trail on Saturday and in a way I found it much more fun than before because of the alleyway of trees (could be the new bike, but I don't know).

 

Every summer the trails take a hiding. Look at Snake eyes (AFAIK no maintenance has been done there in a LONG TIME) and Vasbyt (weathered quite well this summer IMHO).

 

You say the final direction of the trail was not to be decided till the burn was completed, could this not have added to the degradation of the trail?

 

I'll make a prediction, the burn will not happen within the next either, possibly even the year after that (AFAIK there still hasn't been a burn by Cobra).

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

• It's been 2 months since the AGM. - Yes, but the last time the guys worked on the trail was mid January. The Feb build day never happened.
  
• How many times were they up there? - pretty much 4 to 5 days a week, as discussed
  
• If they had been up there as many times a month as you have previously told me, the trails would have been in a way better state than before. - You REALLY don't know how much work goes into maintaining a trail with those soil conditions and a work party of 4 people, do you?
  
• What would the trails have been lined with? - laterite / clay / soil from the side of the trail, where possible. Remember big digs weren't allowed to source major sources of clay, but you can take from the side of the trail if it is small amounts.
  
• Who supervised these guys (or were they left to their own devices)? Deon supervised the guys, and they became very proficient at the things that they needed to do. They learned how to shape berms, dig water channels, re-shape jumps and all other maintenance items that had to be done.
  

 

 

Yes, you do! I'm jealous!

[marko35s]

 

The amount of alien growth can be directly attributed to the lack of burn.

 

Rode the trail on Saturday and in a way I found it much more fun than before because of the alleyway of trees (could be the new bike, but I don't know).

 

Every summer the trails take a hiding. Look at Snake eyes (AFAIK no maintenance has been done there in a LONG TIME) and Vasbyt (weathered quite well this summer IMHO).

 

You say the final direction of the trail was not to be decided till the burn was completed, could this not have added to the degradation of the trail?

 

I'll make a prediction, the burn will not happen within the next either, possibly even the year after that (AFAIK there still hasn't been a burn by Cobra).

The answer is yes. It's the new bike.

Regarding the maintainence guys - after a month or so of no work they all buggered off and found alternative employment. Since then there has been no ongoing maintainence as far as I know.

The embargo on work up there was a mistake but we need to get past it and look at what can be done now.

[Headshot]

The snake slopes were left in a mess giving Deon et al limited choice of lines because of all the wood left there, not so? Instead of doing the required burns they have left the slopes to deteriorate further. The problems I mentioned would still be there even with a bit of trailside trimming.

 

I for one have no problem with the enhanced tech aspects of Mamba because of the erosion, but it is causing problems for some people. Most of Mamba is doing okay considering the sandy soil.

 

I am not sure about the burns that Deon mentioned but I have seen the wood set up in bonfire shaped piles opposite the picnic ground and presume that's where they are busy - that's not even a mountain or a slope or part of the park? Or is it? Quite bizarre that this area gets the burn while the rest of the park proper is left to turn into an alien forest.

Edited April 23, 2014 by Headshot

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

The amount of alien growth can be directly attributed to the lack of burn.

 

Rode the trail on Saturday and in a way I found it much more fun than before because of the alleyway of trees (could be the new bike, but I don't know).

 

Every summer the trails take a hiding. Look at Snake eyes (AFAIK no maintenance has been done there in a LONG TIME) and Vasbyt (weathered quite well this summer IMHO).

 

You say the final direction of the trail was not to be decided till the burn was completed, could this not have added to the degradation of the trail?

 

I'll make a prediction, the burn will not happen within the next either, possibly even the year after that (AFAIK there still hasn't been a burn by Cobra).

 

Vasbyt's wear is in large part due to the amount of work that went into the trail in teh latter part of last year. More than 10 tonnes of clay (sourced from that deposit that then went off to Cecilia) and loads of man hours, baby heads, stone and water runoff maintenance, not to mention rut filling and trail lifting went on there.

 

The weathering of Vasbyt is directly related to how much maintenance went on there.

 

As to the 2nd highlighted point - no, not really. The trail does not follow fall lines, and it is in no way straight down the mountain, and is not susceptible to the same amount of damage that Vasbyt would be, if it were unlined. What does affect it is large amounts of rider traffic, and as it is unlined it would still be open to damage from the elements. This is not, however, the point. The point is that with proper maintenance, the degradation would not have happened in so large a fashion - it would have been managed and curtailed in the way that it was being managed BEFORE the break in maintenance. IE: people working on the trails, every day, in order to keep them at a certain level.

[Flowta]

The answer is yes. It's the new bike.

Regarding the maintainence guys - after a month or so of no work they all buggered off and found alternative employment. Since then there has been no ongoing maintainence as far as I know.

The embargo on work up there was a mistake but we need to get past it and look at what can be done now.

 

Agreed

[Headshot]

Myles you go on and on about the daily maintenance which allegedly happened. i didn't see evidence of much of this I must say. Take Vasbyt for instance - the pallet drop in landing fell apart and the launch pad itself received not a spot of maintenance even after I pointed it out months ago. i have just ridden it the way it is. Bushes didn't get trimmed etc. Sorry but i am not buying your agenda ridden hard sell of the previous dispensation. We need to move on and deal with the real issues which are a land controller that does not make life easy for us and getting some improvements done on Mamba and Vasbyt. I for one am optimistic things will improve.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

The snake slopes were left in a mess giving Deon et al limited choice of lines because of all the wood left there, not so? Instead of doing the required burns they have left the slopes to deteriorate further. The problems I mentioned would still be there even with a bit of trailside trimming.

 

I for one have no problem with the enhanced tech aspects of Mamba because of the erosion, but it is causing problems for some people. Most of Mamba is doing okay considering the sandy soil.

 

I am not sure about the burns that Deon mentioned but I have seen the wood set up in bonfire shaped piles opposite the picnic ground and presume that's where they are busy - that's not even a mountain or a slope or part of the park? Or is it? Quite bizarre that this area gets the burn while the rest of the park proper is left to turn into an alien forest.

 

I like that too... But then I like anything that challenges me...

 

Anyway. Yeah. There was limited availability of lines and Parks mandates were pretty clear, as was the need for a (temporary, possibly permanent) replacement for the old snakes, to alleviate pressure on the DH trails. That was achieved. The quality of those trails is not the question here.

 

In any case - EVERY trail needs maintenance. Ask Rob Starke how much maintenance he'd need to do on the DH track after an event... Now take that every day for 2 to 3 months, without maintenance, and see what happens. Trails get hammered. Especially if they're not maintained on an ongoing basis. THAT'S what's happening now. And I'm sorry, but 3 days a month and then a volunteer build day is not going to cover it in terms of maintaining the trails. There is FAR more work that goes into it than what could be done in 30 hours (3 x 8 hour work days and 1 x 6 hour) per month. Especially when considering the soil type and number of riders coming into the park on a weekly basis.

 

As for the area being burned - afaik it is part of Tokai area, and is a test burn. From what I've heard (from Sandra) is that they need the budget approval for post burn eradication and maintenance from Parks in PTA before they can commit to a burn time on the upper slopes of Tokai. To burn without budget for the follow up eradication and alien monitoring would not be a clever move at all.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Myles you go on and on about the daily maintenance which allegedly happened. i didn't see evidence of much of this I must say. Take Vasbyt for instance - the pallet drop in landing fell apart and the launch pad itself received not a spot of maintenance even after I pointed it out months ago. i have just ridden it the way it is. Bushes didn't get trimmed etc. Sorry but i am not buying your agenda ridden hard sell of the previous dispensation. We need to move on and deal with the real issues which are a land controller that does not make life easy for us and getting some improvements done on Mamba and Vasbyt. I for one am optimistic things will improve.

 

You wouldn't have seen evidence unless you were specifically looking for it. A lot of it was lifting the trail height on DH3 & Vasbyt, making changes to Roots, maintaining other trails and so on - all of which takes time. Yes - the pallet jump has been a bit... loose... for a while now, and that did need attention.

 

The moral of this particular story is that maintenance is key. It always will be. To ignore the need for maintenance and just plough on with new features on trails without first fixing stuff on the existing trails is very short sighted. I'm VERY excited with Bennet coming in, as it does mean that there will be better quality features on the mountain - of that there is no doubt - but we need to ensure the continued work on the maintenance side. And for the last 3 months there has been fokkol, and look at where we are. Arguing about burns and alien eradication and so on, when the state of the existing trails on freshly logged slope is rapidly deteriorating.

[marko35s]

Myles you go on and on about the daily maintenance which allegedly happened. i didn't see evidence of much of this I must say. Take Vasbyt for instance - the pallet drop in landing fell apart and the launch pad itself received not a spot of maintenance even after I pointed it out months ago. i have just ridden it the way it is. Bushes didn't get trimmed etc. Sorry but i am not buying your agenda ridden hard sell of the previous dispensation. We need to move on and deal with the real issues which are a land controller that does not make life easy for us and getting some improvements done on Mamba and Vasbyt. I for one am optimistic things will improve.

Please lets not turn this into a bunfight.

That said it is fair to say that the trails need more ongoing care/work than is currently the case. The question should be - what can we do to remedy this?

Edit - I took a ride through Boulders yesterday, for the first time in months, and it is nothing short of astonishing how the tree cover helps preserve the integrity of the trail.

The open trails must be a nightmare in comparison.

Edited April 23, 2014 by marko35s

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Please lets not turn this into a bunfight.

That said it is fair to say that the trails need more ongoing care/work than is currently the case. The question should be - what can we do to remedy this?

 

Agreed. Before they can concentrate on new trail, the committee needs to start a rigorous maintenance schedule so that the potential new trails don't suffer the same fate.

 

We all want the same thing, at the end of the day. Trail. Whose fault this situation is is irrelevant. It's like this now. They need to fix it. It will only be fixed by introducing a maintenance team, who are on the mountain maintaining the trails so that the effect of the weather / riders / whatever is minimized.

 

That means a reliable source of clay (Deon is sorting this for Mamba as we speak, and working on it tomorrow) and willing workers.

[Guest EdEdEd]

Wait... wheres this mamba???

 

and... whats Tokai?

Edited April 23, 2014 by EdEdEd

[jimmy hardtail]

I am going to cut back the weeds on the corners on the snake trails on friday. its getting ridiculois when you cant even see the corners, nevermind rail the berms cos the bush hooks your bars. and those little rock gardens are getting super tech. almost dh track stuff....

[marko35s]

I am going to cut back the weeds on the corners on the snake trails on friday. its getting ridiculois when you cant even see the corners, nevermind rail the berms cos the bush hooks your bars. and those little rock gardens are getting super tech. almost dh track stuff....

That is in the process of being organized as far as I know, you may have company that day.

[(Deon)]

I am going to cut back the weeds on the corners on the snake trails on friday. its getting ridiculois when you cant even see the corners, nevermind rail the berms cos the bush hooks your bars. and those little rock gardens are getting super tech. almost dh track stuff....

Thanks James. If it's Friday, you will have company. I'll be the noisy one in a funny hat.