Lets Stop this now (money making from selling entries)

[jcza]

I am stunned at how many people there are who think its okay to sell an entry to a cycle race at a profit. Sure - supply and demand and all that; but there is such a thing as morality.

 

It's this mentality that caused the financial crisis in 2008 - a perfect example of morality being ignored in the application of the laws of supply and demand. All those pensioners now all of a sudden not having any pension because of the laws of supply and demand (despite having saved their whole lives). What those investment banks did wasn't necessarily illegal - but it was immoral.

 

There's a huge demand for rhino horn (and consequently an inflated price for it), does that mean its just fine and dandy to sell it?

 

I had an epic entry a few years back (from the lucky draw). I was a bit short of cash to actually do the race (equipment, time away from my business, entry fee, etc) so gave the entry back. I didn't try and sell it (it didn't even enter my mind as a possibility). People laughed at me for doing that. I suppose those same people would be the ones who say its OK to sell rhino horn or to effectively rob pension funds of their money. 

 

Aside from the morality issue, there is in fact an element of illegality: the terms and conditions under which almost all entries to races are purchased stipulate that you would be in violation of the contract if you sold the entry at a profit (I know that this applies to the Epic and to the CTCT). It's fraud, and its corrupt. Think about that next time you think you have the right to complain about Nkandla or the Arms Deal - you are exactly the same as our dear friends in Government, only on a smaller scale.

 

Lastly, are you people not able to make money in the real world? Are you that pathetically useless that you have to tout entries to cycle races to make money?

 

I dare you to try and sell me a ticket to any event at a profit.

 

Deep breath......count to zen.

[Grogs]

--------

[GLuvsMtb]

Substitution process closes a month before the event I think. You'll have to make sure it's in time to get that done too!

Argus subs opened on 2 Feb this year and closed on 20 Feb, so you would have been able to sub just over 2 weeks to race day.

 

Look at what happened with K2C. The week before subs closed people were virtually giving their entries, accommodation and transport away to recover at least a portion.

 

A good friend of mine has done quite a few Epics. He only paid full price for the first 2. The others he and his team mate simply waited for a last minute drop-out and took up the entry at much less than face value.

[KiNgL]

You can have mine for R1000...

i have a sani2c entry ill swap for a house in Deinfern ?? anyone?

[Shebeen]

 

I had an epic entry a few years back (from the lucky draw). I was a bit short of cash to actually do the race (equipment, time away from my business, entry fee, etc) so gave the entry back. 

wait wait wait.

You really entered the epic lucky draw without the bike, the leave or the money?

 

That's a surefire way to get your karma down the pipes.

[Pure Savage]

Lets play a game to see how many people we can get banned from doing racetec events

 

That way there will be less demand next year and my PPA purchase of tickets will not be so frantic.

[BarHugger]

I am stunned at how many people there are who think its okay to sell an entry to a cycle race at a profit. Sure - supply and demand and all that; but there is such a thing as morality.

 

It's this mentality that caused the financial crisis in 2008 - a perfect example of morality being ignored in the application of the laws of supply and demand. All those pensioners now all of a sudden not having any pension because of the laws of supply and demand (despite having saved their whole lives). What those investment banks did wasn't necessarily illegal - but it was immoral.

 

There's a huge demand for rhino horn (and consequently an inflated price for it), does that mean its just fine and dandy to sell it?

 

I had an epic entry a few years back (from the lucky draw). I was a bit short of cash to actually do the race (equipment, time away from my business, entry fee, etc) so gave the entry back. I didn't try and sell it (it didn't even enter my mind as a possibility). People laughed at me for doing that. I suppose those same people would be the ones who say its OK to sell rhino horn or to effectively rob pension funds of their money.

 

Aside from the morality issue, there is in fact an element of illegality: the terms and conditions under which almost all entries to races are purchased stipulate that you would be in violation of the contract if you sold the entry at a profit (I know that this applies to the Epic and to the CTCT). It's fraud, and its corrupt. Think about that next time you think you have the right to complain about Nkandla or the Arms Deal - you are exactly the same as our dear friends in Government, only on a smaller scale.

 

Lastly, are you people not able to make money in the real world? Are you that pathetically useless that you have to tout entries to cycle races to make money?

 

I dare you to try and sell me a ticket to any event at a profit.

You raise some serious questions and address critical issues to make your point about the influence of morality on the supply and demand principle. Addressing the issues raised and statements made by you one-by-one might lead to a 100 pager thread or a quick lock down.......so emotional this can be.

 

So lets keep it simple and cycling related......also without falling into a situation of paralysis by analysis.

 

The question first: Will you pay the seller's asking price? (Yes/No/Maybe)

 

The scenario: You entered your one and only beloved race.....the one you have been dreaming and preparing for the last 365 days. You are in total control and everythimg goes according to preparation and plan. However, halfway through the race your chain breaks.......and oooops.....you forgot to pack a quick link. You desperately want to complete the race.....all the preparation must not be in vain.......the disappointment will just be too great.

 

Now comes the morality factor. Will you pay your R50 post-race coffee-and-croissant refreshment money over to the guy who stops and offers you a quick link for R50, although you know they sell for R30 at your local LBS?

 

Why and how the seller came to a price of R50 is not the question......maybe he saw an opportunity to score some beer money for a drink after the race with his friends.

 

Will you buy the quick link at almost 66% its assumed selling price?

 

(or will you decline his offer and do the moral thing........wait for the next, more acceptable offer that you think is fair).

 

Same principles apply......and remember you as the BUYER still have a choice.

[Tubehunter]

You raise some serious questions and address critical issues to make your point about the influence of morality on the supply and demand principle. Addressing the issues raised and statements made by you one-by-one might lead to a 100 pager thread or a quick lock down.......so emotional this can be.

 

So lets keep it simple and cycling related......also without falling into a situation of paralysis by analysis.

 

The question first: Will you pay the seller's asking price? (Yes/No/Maybe)

 

The scenario: You entered your one and only beloved race.....the one you have been dreaming and preparing for the last 365 days. You are in total control and everythimg goes according to preparation and plan. However, halfway through the race your chain breaks.......and oooops.....you forgot to pack a quick link. You desperately want to complete the race.....all the preparation must not be in vain.......the disappointment will just be too great.

 

Now comes the morality factor. Will you pay your R50 post-race coffee-and-croissant refreshment money over to the guy who stops and offers you a quick link for R50, although you know they sell for R30 at your local LBS?

 

Why and how the seller came to a price of R50 is not the question......maybe he saw an opportunity to score some beer money for a drink after the race with his friends.

 

Will you buy the quick link at almost 66% its assumed selling price?

 

(or will you decline his offer and do the moral thing........wait for the next, more acceptable offer that you think is fair).

 

Same principles apply......and remember you as the BUYER still have a choice.

 

I cycle on the pay it forward system. If I see someone broken down and I can help I do without expecting reimbursement for required bits. The strangest thing is that whenever I've had an issue by some weird principle I've been treated the same way.

 

Also if we're nitpicking, then the race mentioned has many service points and the likelihood is that you can in some way or another make it to these to get sorted and pay the fair price that way.

 

Let's not get into detail of anal proportions here. Keep it simple. Don't buy a race entry to the Argus for an inflated price. If someone offers you one for more, get their details and send it to the organisers. They will sort it out. The reality is that the race should have its entries taken up by cyclists and not become ambushed by ticket tout types.

[Pulse]

You raise some serious questions and address critical issues to make your point about the influence of morality on the supply and demand principle. Addressing the issues raised and statements made by you one-by-one might lead to a 100 pager thread or a quick lock down.......so emotional this can be.

 

So lets keep it simple and cycling related......also without falling into a situation of paralysis by analysis.

 

The question first: Will you pay the seller's asking price? (Yes/No/Maybe)

 

The scenario: You entered your one and only beloved race.....the one you have been dreaming and preparing for the last 365 days. You are in total control and everythimg goes according to preparation and plan. However, halfway through the race your chain breaks.......and oooops.....you forgot to pack a quick link. You desperately want to complete the race.....all the preparation must not be in vain.......the disappointment will just be too great.

 

Now comes the morality factor. Will you pay your R50 post-race coffee-and-croissant refreshment money over to the guy who stops and offers you a quick link for R50, although you know they sell for R30 at your local LBS?

 

Why and how the seller came to a price of R50 is not the question......maybe he saw an opportunity to score some beer money for a drink after the race with his friends.

 

Will you buy the quick link at almost 66% its assumed selling price?

 

(or will you decline his offer and do the moral thing........wait for the next, more acceptable offer that you think is fair).

 

Same principles apply......and remember you as the BUYER still have a choice.

Your example makes no sense.

 

If several guys needed quick links BEFORE the race started, and someone buys up all the available links to sell them IMMEDIATELY at a huge profit to those that need it, that is a different story.

 

Guys baught up entries they never intended using, just to sell it off a week later at 100% profit.

 

Not the same thing at all

[Shebeen]

Lets play a game to see how many people we can get banned from doing racetec events

 

That way there will be less demand next year and my PPA purchase of tickets will not be so frantic.

that's a good idea. BUT I'm more excited to see how the OP actually intends on implementing his noble plan. Let's walk through it, carefully.

 

step 1: we (the hub) all agree this is a terrible scenario. It is actually the first time that the entire hub has agreed on a single topic - it is that horrendous.

step 2: we (the hub) declare a declaration that this must stop. We will do this in the government gazette, a pr release from the cycletour press office, some adverts in local newspapers and magazines and of course on the hub itself.

step 3: now that we (the hub) have made our intentions clear, we set up a vigilante group to police our new declaration. We (the hub) need lots of people with different skills to do this. Some internet sleuths will monitor internet boards like gumtree/olx and of course the hub. We will get our contacts at the big banks to keep an eye out for transactions that could be cycle tour related too. We will also infiltrate all cycling clubs to get ears on the ground.

step 4: a standard "YOU ARE MORALLY COCKING UP THE CYCLETOUR" template will be drawn up by our friends at a cycling friendly legal firm that we can charge these offenders with. obviously this will be watertight and the cycletour can proceed directly with castigate those fiends we catch.

step 5: a slush fund is put together to defend any court action brought about by our actions in step 4.

 

or alternatively, we could just drop it.

[Tubehunter]

that's a good idea. BUT I'm more excited to see how the OP actually intends on implementing his noble plan. Let's walk through it, carefully.

 

step 1: we (the hub) all agree this is a terrible scenario. It is actually the first time that the entire hub has agreed on a single topic - it is that horrendous.

step 2: we (the hub) declare a declaration that this must stop. We will do this in the government gazette, a pr release from the cycletour press office, some adverts in local newspapers and magazines and of course on the hub itself.

step 3: now that we (the hub) have made our intentions clear, we set up a vigilante group to police our new declaration. We (the hub) need lots of people with different skills to do this. Some internet sleuths will monitor internet boards like gumtree/olx and of course the hub. We will get our contacts at the big banks to keep an eye out for transactions that could be cycle tour related too. We will also infiltrate all cycling clubs to get ears on the ground.

step 4: a standard "YOU ARE MORALLY COCKING UP THE CYCLETOUR" template will be drawn up by our friends at a cycling friendly legal firm that we can charge these offenders with. obviously this will be watertight and the cycletour can proceed directly with castigate those fiends we catch.

step 5: a slush fund is put together to defend any court action brought about by our actions in step 4.

 

or alternatively, we could just drop it.

 

Or keep it simple

 

step 0:

 

You make an enquiry to get an entry and find out it is indeed being sold at a profit. You don't particularly care whether you have mass subscription to this view.  You collect the sellers details along with copies of info showing increased price and send this to the Cycle Tour Trust.

 

You do not then proceed with the remainder of the steps mentioned....

[Pure Savage]

that's a good idea. BUT I'm more excited to see how the OP actually intends on implementing his noble plan. Let's walk through it, carefully.

 

step 1: we (the hub) all agree this is a terrible scenario. It is actually the first time that the entire hub has agreed on a single topic - it is that horrendous.

step 2: we (the hub) declare a declaration that this must stop. We will do this in the government gazette, a pr release from the cycletour press office, some adverts in local newspapers and magazines and of course on the hub itself.

step 3: now that we (the hub) have made our intentions clear, we set up a vigilante group to police our new declaration. We (the hub) need lots of people with different skills to do this. Some internet sleuths will monitor internet boards like gumtree/olx and of course the hub. We will get our contacts at the big banks to keep an eye out for transactions that could be cycle tour related too. We will also infiltrate all cycling clubs to get ears on the ground.

step 4: a standard "YOU ARE MORALLY COCKING UP THE CYCLETOUR" template will be drawn up by our friends at a cycling friendly legal firm that we can charge these offenders with. obviously this will be watertight and the cycletour can proceed directly with castigate those fiends we catch.

step 5: a slush fund is put together to defend any court action brought about by our actions in step 4.

 

or alternatively, we could just drop it.

I was thinking of just sending the guys number or email to ctctt with screen shot of offer above cost. Pretty sure ctctt will just ban the oke no further enquiry. They don't even have to notify the guy. His id number just won't work at events.

 

That's what I would do if I ran the show.

 

I would also charge more, give less people entries and finish at the top of kloof nek.

[Grogs]

Now comes the morality factor. Will you pay your R50 post-race coffee-and-croissant refreshment money over to the guy who stops and offers you a quick link for R50, although you know they sell for R30 at your local LBS?

 

...

 

Will you buy the quick link at almost 66% its assumed selling price?

 

(or will you decline his offer and do the moral thing........wait for the next, more acceptable offer that you think is fair).

 

Same principles apply......and remember you as the BUYER still have a choice.

 

Of course I would buy the chainlink. But under protest. I'd make sure to tell the oke he's a hyaena when I do pay him his R50. I'd probably find him and have a good talk to him after the race about what a prick he is.

 

I'm not the one who's being immoral - its the prick hyaena - he's exploiting someone he knows is in a vulnerable position, and he knows he's doing it and can get away with it (well, for now, until the end of the race at least).

 

So, I'm afraid to say, the same principles do not apply my friend. You don't need to be a professor of logic or ethics to work this out.

 

Are you the guy who says that those pension funds were the ones acting in an immoral way because they, as the buyers of those instruments that went belly up had a choice? I mean, those upstanding investment bankers really were the epitome of morality, weren't they? 

[Latent_Blue]

Ja, ne?

[rouxtjie]

Or keep it simple

 

step 0:

 

You make an enquiry to get an entry and find out it is indeed being sold at a profit. You don't particularly care whether you have mass subscription to this view.  You collect the sellers details along with copies of info showing increased price and send this to the Cycle Tour Trust.

 

You do not then proceed with the remainder of the steps mentioned....

Too much admin....just ignore

[rouxtjie]

Of course I would buy the chainlink. But under protest. I'd make sure to tell the oke he's a hyaena when I do pay him his R50. I'd probably find him and have a good talk to him after the race about what a prick he is.

 

I'm not the one who's being immoral - its the prick hyaena - he's exploiting someone he knows is in a vulnerable position, and he knows he's doing it and can get away with it (well, for now, until the end of the race at least).

 

So, I'm afraid to say, the same principles do not apply my friend. You don't need to be a professor of logic or ethics to work this out.

 

Are you the guy who says that those pension funds were the ones acting in an immoral way because they, as the buyers of those instruments that went belly up had a choice? I mean, those upstanding investment bankers really were the epitome of morality, weren't they?

You also don't need to be a prof to understand free market system...

 

Walk the rest of the race if he is such a hyaena, you will really show him