How do I work out how much to increase stem length?

[popcorn_skollie]

'Comfort suffers a bit, partly because the saddle is not a particularly comfy one and partly because the geometry setup places you well forward with more weight on your arms.'

 

Quote from bikeradar review on op's bike.

http://www.bikeradar.com/mtb/gear/category/bikes/mountain-bikes/hardtail/product/review-gt-zaskar-9r-comp-13-47318/

 

A long stem would just compound this problem.

Now I dont know as much as most guys on here.

 

But I would suggest a shorter stem, wider bar, setback post and...

 

if you are pushing your weight forward to eleviate the pressure on your bum

(You may be doing this unknowingly) a comfy saddle.

 

Let us know how it goes. Dont hold me to it. Because I dont know what I'm talking about.

I also don't mind egg on my face.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

I don't think this has actually been stated in clear terms, but other than the fact that "the industry is going that way", what are you basing your opinion on? You seem to refuse to accept that in general there is no X is better, so I assume there is some actual research to show that wider and shorter is better more than 50% of the time. And by better I mean from a riding comfort and body specific point of view, not leverage (the leverage argument is anyways rubbish of you ignore rider dynamic - it's not a vacuum).

 

It's all fine to make recommendations and say "well consider X as a possible solution". But you're coming from an angle of absolutes and there be dragons.

 

 

I never said it was an absolute. Some people just have funny bodies, and will need a different setup in order to facilitate that - mada 3400 is one of those people - 1.97m tall, mostly in his legs - he rides a large GT force but with the seat slammed so high it's right at the top of the limits - he NEEDS a larger bike as his top tube is short for a large (less than a spez Enduro 26" medium) but finding one in his budget is tough. For the moment he's got to go - fancy that - wide bar - in order to fit his large frame on his small large bike. But he's got a 35mm stem on there cos that's comfortable. 

 

But for the vast majority of people, it is my FIRM opinion that a wide bar & short stem will be better, once they're on the right size bike. 

 

As for source... many, but this was the most compelling.

 

http://www.mbr.co.uk/news/size-matters-why-were-all-riding-bikes-that-are-too-small-321374

 

&

 

http://www.mbr.co.uk/news/bike_news/size-matters-part-2-finding-limits-geometry-sizing-323289

[popcorn_skollie]

The Zazkar is a benchmark bike. Either you have one, had one, or know someone that does.

I particularly like the rigid niner fork ss setups people go for with those 29ers.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

'Comfort suffers a bit, partly because the saddle is not a particularly comfy one and partly because the geometry setup places you well forward with more weight on your arms.'

 

Quote from bikeradar review on op's bike.

http://www.bikeradar.com/mtb/gear/category/bikes/mountain-bikes/hardtail/product/review-gt-zaskar-9r-comp-13-47318/

 

A long stem would just compound this problem.

Now I dont know as much as most guys on here.

 

But I would suggest a shorter stem, wider bar, setback post and...

 

if you are pushing your weight forward to eleviate the pressure on your bum

(You may be doing this unknowingly) a comfy saddle.

 

Let us know how it goes. Dont hold me to it. Because I dont know what I'm talking about.

I also don't mind egg on my face.

645mm top tube, which should be about right barring any strange body composition. 

[popcorn_skollie]

645mm top tube, which should be about right barring any strange body composition. 

 

on an XL? the same review says it comes stock with a 790 bar and 85 stem

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

on an XL? the same review says it comes stock with a 790 bar and 85 stem

Which one are you looking at? I was looking at the hardtail and...

 

http://bikereference.appspot.com/bike/download/bike.geometria.a221b0c6ebe62d3e.67656f6d5f67745f7a61736b61722e676966.gif

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

on an XL? the same review says it comes stock with a 790 bar and 85 stem

Must be a typo on there. Sure it's 690mm. Only bike I currently know of that comes stock with a bar that width is the new Reign. But there could be others

 

I was talking top tube. 

[popcorn_skollie]

Bikeradar doesnt specify which framesize but its in the sidebar of the link i posted.

You posted top tube length, I read top tube length. My brain processed bar width.

That means...its time for bed

[GoLefty!!]

Cool - then it's probably an outlier, and for his next bike he's probably going to go for something with a longer top tube in order to get the correct fit, without going for a stem that long. Some people have longer torsos / shorter torsos than others, and there will be outliers. But for the vast majority of people, a wide bar / short stem setup will yield better results than a narrow bar / long stem. That's precisely WHY the manufacturers like Mondraker / Gary Fisher etc are building "forward geometry" bikes - in order to facilitate the move to a short stem / wide bar on their bikes. 

 

For me, I ride with a 40mm stem and 780mm bars. I know my reach is slightly compromised, and I should probably have a slightly longer stem to have a bit more room, and I will most probably have a look at a 60mm stem just to get a little more room on the bike. But would I change it for a 680mm bar and 100mm stem? No way. That would position me too far forward over the front wheel, and actually give me greater instability on the bike. I've been there before, and it's not nice. 

 

 

 

then just ride a bike with a shorter top tube.

 

 

Of course once you read your posts over and over again you will realise that what you're actually saying is that the stem length should suit the way the rider wants to fit on the bike based on their physiology and how that integrates with the bike,  therefore a bike fit is needed before changing bars....

 

 

 

PS; if that zaskar has a 72 degree head tube then a shorter stem is going to make the handling even more twitchy. A more comfy saddle and perhaps raising the bar height would be quick solutions.

 

Of course this could be sorted at a bike fit session but that's like going to the doctor when its easier to get a panado over the counter.

[brucem76]

Soooo... who can suggest decent bike fitment places in Cape Town then? Bonus points for Northern Suburbs...

[Amberdrake]

El Capitan Suggested Debbie at trail and tar Or u can also go to the ergo fit guys at sports science institute. I did find basic ergo fit a bit stretched out on my Tallboy (100mm stem). The costs of bike fitments seem high at first look. However if you get the right fit you will feel that its worth every cent. Also something to remember with longer bars, they can be cut!  

[s14phoenix]

@ Brucem76.

 

You have bought and ordered a longer handlebar. Try it. Take it with to the bike fit. Feel what the difference is for you between your new bar and the old.

 

If you would then please report back on all your results - bike fit, wide bar and all other changes etc.

 

It will be interesting to know what your total unbiased opinion is as you are looking to solve a problem you have with the fit of your bike.

 

I have also just bought a longer bar and my bar history has been

 

625mm > 680mm > 725mm> now 740mm which seems to be the happy medium. as 760mm felt a bit wide for me.

 

I have had 100mm  > 90mm > 80mm > 70mm > and now waiting for my 60mm stem.

 

YES it suits MY riding style and fixed a lot of the OTB feeling and general comfort when doing drops and steep declines especially but just the general feel on the trail has also been much improved. Friends and family has since followed suit with similar results.

 

I am purely saying this is IMO and experience. But I would be very interested in the results of your findings.

[Nayr]

Numb hands as far as I know can only be caused by one thing...too much pressure on and pinching of the ulna nerve. I suffered the same problem, i'm not as tall only 188, but a slight rise on my bar was a partial fix, and bar width in my instance had nothing to do with pinching the nerve. I found i would get 20 or so kms into the ride and it would start. With the rise, my hands would start going numb towards the end of a long ride. With some mediocre core training the problem went away all together. I have also recently gone with a wider bar/shorter stem combo (740mm and 70mm) and this has aided with comfort and helped with my riding style, but had nothing to do with the numb hands fix...

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

then just ride a bike with a shorter top tube.

 

Sigh. If anything I'd go for a longer top tube or something with a greater reach, to give me more room between saddle and bars. I wouldn't go down a frame size as that would restrict my movement. Which is bad. 

 

 

Of course once you read your posts over and over again you will realise that what you're actually saying is that the stem length should suit the way the rider wants to fit on the bike based on their physiology and how that integrates with the bike,  therefore a bike fit is needed before changing bars....

 

Within reason, Tim. I still maintain that if you need to put a 100mm stem on your bike to make it fit, then your bike's frame is too short for you and you should have gone with something with a longer reach. Whacking a long stem ensures that your weight distribution is compromised - placing more weight closer to / in front of the axle, which destabilises the bike when things get steep and technical. It also means that your ability to get behind the saddle is compromised.

 

 

PS; if that zaskar has a 72 degree head tube then a shorter stem is going to make the handling even more twitchy. A more comfy saddle and perhaps raising the bar height would be quick solutions.

 

Yes, but a wider bar would help alleviate that more sensitive steering, whilst also freeing up more space for his hands to go as wide as he wants them to. Smacking a longer stem on is NOT the answer - he's already at 100mm. Going any longer would severely compromise the hanlding and stability of the bike. Core work would also help tremendously, and would most probably fix the numb hands issue completely. 

 

Of course this could be sorted at a bike fit session but that's like going to the doctor when its easier to get a panado over the counter.

[Vangar]

 

(snip)

 

Within reason, Tim. I still maintain that if you need to put a 100mm stem on your bike to make it fit, then your bike's frame is too short for you and you should have gone with something with a longer reach. Whacking a long stem ensures that your weight distribution is compromised - placing more weight closer to / in front of the axle, which destabilises the bike when things get steep and technical. It also means that your ability to get behind the saddle is compromised.

 

 

PS; if that zaskar has a 72 degree head tube then a shorter stem is going to make the handling even more twitchy. A more comfy saddle and perhaps raising the bar height would be quick solutions.

 

Yes, but a wider bar would help alleviate that more sensitive steering, whilst also freeing up more space for his hands to go as wide as he wants them to. Smacking a longer stem on is NOT the answer - he's already at 100mm. Going any longer would severely compromise the hanlding and stability of the bike. Core work would also help tremendously, and would most probably fix the numb hands issue completely. 

 

(Snip)

 

 

Just to add my 2c. Stem length and bike size can be a weird thing. On both my 26" bikes I ended up with an XL frame, 60-80mm stem down from the stock 100 or 120mm and some 740mm bars. This is for my 192cm frame. On my 29" a large frame I went for a bike fit as I wanted to fit a short stem and to my surprise the stock 90mm stem coupled with some nice spank 762mm bars put me in the perfect riding postion. Turns out the big fit problem I  was having was the weirdly shaped stock bars. Suddenly everything feels comfy and stable and working.

 

So from my side, go for a proper fit and see what is going to work best.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Just to add my 2c. Stem length and bike size can be a weird thing. On both my 26" bikes I ended up with an XL frame, 60-80mm stem down from the stock 100 or 120mm and some 740mm bars. This is for my 192cm frame. On my 29" a large frame I went for a bike fit as I wanted to fit a short stem and to my surprise the stock 90mm stem coupled with some nice spank 762mm bars put me in the perfect riding postion. Turns out the big fit problem I  was having was the weirdly shaped stock bars. Suddenly everything feels comfy and stable and working.

 

So from my side, go for a proper fit and see what is going to work best.

yeah... And if your top tube / reach on the niner had been longer, you would have put a shorter stem on... You went from an XL frame to an L frame, which probably came with a drop in your top tube length, and then had to add length to the stem to compensate... 

 

Probably should have stayed on an XL...