Vangar Posted February 4, 2015 Posted February 4, 2015 yeah... And if your top tube / reach on the niner had been longer, you would have put a shorter stem on... You went from an XL frame to an L frame, which probably came with a drop in your top tube length, and then had to add length to the stem to compensate... Probably should have stayed on an XL... Hehe, silverbacks are weird. The XL Sprada frame is waaaaaaay too big for me, the top tube length on my large is only a little bit shorter that the previous XL.
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted February 4, 2015 Posted February 4, 2015 Hehe, silverbacks are weird. The XL Sprada frame is waaaaaaay too big for me, the top tube length on my large is only a little bit shorter that the previous XL. yeah, that they are. But as you see, even 20mm can make a difference... reach should really stay constant over your bikes, depending on how flexible you are and so on.
porqui Posted February 4, 2015 Posted February 4, 2015 To OP You need to do your homework! The info on this thread is so skewed. There is tons of really good info on the web. Go and inform yourself. For starters go read up on bike setup (the basics). FSO
brucem76 Posted February 4, 2015 Author Posted February 4, 2015 Lol - there is even more variety in terms of opinions on bike setup on the internet than here. Well, something objective to rave about: rapide.co.za rocks - super cheap bars, super cheap courier option (The Courier Guy) - and from the time I clicked "buy", to the time I was holding the bars in my hands (Joburg to Cape Town) - exactly 24 hours. Impressed! I'm actually thinking of pioneering 1000mm bars - the wider the better - this might relieve pressure on the back, as I rest my chin on the stem. Just a joke, GoLefty! I'm away in Namibia until Monday, will report back early next week on how the first ride with wider bars go. If I experience numb hands, I expect this thread to blow up! If I don't experience numb hands... I expect this thread to blow up!
brucem76 Posted February 4, 2015 Author Posted February 4, 2015 So I couldn't resist popping my new bars on my bike, was easier than anticipated. Interested to hear - with these bars that have an upsweep and backsweep, am I correct that there is a range of how you could install them? You could install them more upright, giving you more upsweep and less backsweep, or flatter, giving you less upsweep and more backsweep? I know there are markings to align and center, but it seems there is a smallish range in terms of how I could set them? Am I right to try them center, then try them with a bit more "up", and then try them with a bit more "back"?
EmptyB Posted February 4, 2015 Posted February 4, 2015 So I couldn't resist popping my new bars on my bike, was easier than anticipated. Interested to hear - with these bars that have an upsweep and backsweep, am I correct that there is a range of how you could install them? You could install them more upright, giving you more upsweep and less backsweep, or flatter, giving you less upsweep and more backsweep? I know there are markings to align and center, but it seems there is a smallish range in terms of how I could set them? Am I right to try them center, then try them with a bit more "up", and then try them with a bit more "back"?Forget back and up, try them more forward so you can rest your chin on the stem remember.....
JXV Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 I'll bet that most people taking part in this raging debate are much shorter than 1.95m tall and cannot really relate to the issues that arise.Its like asking a doctor to make a diagnosis on symptoms reported by a 3rd party... Brucem, please dont rush out and spend money on parts before you go for a proper bike fit. They will measure and check things we cannot see here on the hub.Be open to the possibility that your bike frame may be too small for you and its geometry may also be contributing to your discomfort - the Zaskars have always been XC/race oriented frames. If changing your bike is indicated but not an option then changing of parts should come into play, based on results of the bike fit. There may be some compromises involved. Since you are tall you might do better with a wider bar, setback seatpost, different stem and greater stack height. Let the bike fit determine this.
RockCoach Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 All that I can say is that I've hardly had to try and sell the short stems and wide bars in my shop. They are flying off the shelves. Why? Because guys have tried the short and wide set up on their mates bike and couldn't believe the difference. One thing which has been left out of the debate (unless I missed it) is that the shorter stem/wider bar set up is the extra control, stability and directness in steering it affords during cornering. It literally transforms the handling of most bikes and that has been the biggest selling point. It obviously suits the newer geometry frames with longer top tubes though. Long stems give you stability in a straight line which is perfect for a road bike or if your MTB only ventures on dust roads. But a bike with long stem which is stable in a straight line doesn't like to turn which is not great in single track. Conversely short stems aren't going to enjoy long straight roads. Pick your poison.
GoLefty!! Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 I'll bet that most people taking part in this raging debate are much shorter than 1.95m tall and cannot really relate to the issues that arise.Its like asking a doctor to make a diagnosis on symptoms reported by a 3rd party... Brucem, please dont rush out and spend money on parts before you go for a proper bike fit. They will measure and check things we cannot see here on the hub.Be open to the possibility that your bike frame may be too small for you and its geometry may also be contributing to your discomfort - the Zaskars have always been XC/race oriented frames. If changing your bike is indicated but not an option then changing of parts should come into play, based on results of the bike fit. There may be some compromises involved. Since you are tall you might do better with a wider bar, setback seatpost, different stem and greater stack height. Let the bike fit determine this. 100% agree with this.
RockCoach Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 100% agree with this. The problem I have seen is that many bike fitters tend to set a MTB up the way you would a road bike. ie. to be efficient for pedalling fast seated in a straight line. Whereas MTB set ups are a compromise on your pedalling effiency. The more gnarly or technical you go the more the set up is "compromised". I have a friend who went for a pro set up and the very first ride after that went OTB on the first steep descent she encountered. Where she had previously ridden that perfectly well. She was very uncomfortable and confidence suffered. They of course had lengthened and dropped her stem. It's not the only case I have witnessed. Fortunately someone else fixed it before she told me about it.
GoLefty!! Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 the probl The problem I have seen is that many bike fitters tend to set a MTB up the way you would a road bike. ie. to be efficient for pedalling fast seated in a straight line. Whereas MTB set ups are a compromise on your pedalling effiency. The more gnarly or technical you go the more the set up is "compromised". I have a friend who went for a pro set up and the very first ride after that went OTB on the first steep descent she encountered. Where she had previously ridden that perfectly well. She was very uncomfortable and confidence suffered. They of course had lengthened and dropped her stem. It's not the only case I have witnessed. Fortunately someone else fixed it before she told me about it. well theres her problem. If you want to look like a pro, and pay people to make you look like a pro but don't have the time to get to a pro level then OTB is an inevitability. Many people are justnot honest about what they want or their own abilities. I went for a bike fit with Dr Jeroen Swart many years ago. I got my bars raised, stem shortened and saddle raised and given a range for saddle height where power is not compromised. I can use the lower end of the range for MTB where getting out of the saddle to negotiate obstacles is necessary and I use the higher end of the range for when fit and doing lots of road riding. the range is 15mm and that's enough. there are also a lot of people doing bike fits who have no clue what they are doing or how to extract from their clients what they actually need or want. Most will happily take your money if you insist on looking "pro". Still getting to a bike fit practitioner is 100X better than fiting your bike out based on "thehub advice"
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 The problem I have seen is that many bike fitters tend to set a MTB up the way you would a road bike. ie. to be efficient for pedalling fast seated in a straight line. Whereas MTB set ups are a compromise on your pedalling effiency. The more gnarly or technical you go the more the set up is "compromised". I have a friend who went for a pro set up and the very first ride after that went OTB on the first steep descent she encountered. Where she had previously ridden that perfectly well. She was very uncomfortable and confidence suffered. They of course had lengthened and dropped her stem. It's not the only case I have witnessed. Fortunately someone else fixed it before she told me about it.Precisely my point... Which is why, as I said earlier, it's so important to find someone who knows what he or she is doing. Jeroen is one of those people. BTW Tim - I'm pretty sure Robo's use of Pro was to denote professional setup, and not in order to look like a pro.
GoLefty!! Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 point is, you have to tell them what you want to achieve or problem you want to solve. Most people go for a professional bike fit so that that they can achieve maximum pedaling efficiency for events that require lots of pedaling. unless you tell them you want to see further or get better control they're going to set you up for the "pro" look
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 point is, you have to tell them what you want to achieve or problem you want to solve. Most people go for a professional bike fit so that that they can achieve maximum pedaling efficiency for events that require lots of pedaling. unless you tell them you want to see further or get better control they're going to set you up for the "pro" look100%. I've also seen it with people who just go in and the person doing the fitment is useless. When I saw Renay doing his fitments - the full ones - it was a different thing entirely. I know Jeroen also works along the same principles, but only if you tell him what you're looking for will you be able to get a setup that suits you. I still maintain though, that for anything other than jeep trackery, a stem longer than 70-80mm is the wrong solution. People should rather be concentrating on the top tube & reach numbers (together with other metrics) to get the fit right, before slapping a stem on. That actually means going for a bike fit before you buy a bike, and using those measurements (reach etc) to determine the best frame for your body / fit, and then choosing from a variety of stem lengths and bar widths - 0mm in Mondraker's case and 35mm everywhere else to 70mm stem length - and bar width between 700 and 800 depending on terrain and personal preference. I still think a bar under 700mm is a bit silly, though, unless physical constraints dictate otherwise. Like in the case of a lightie, or a really short person...
RockCoach Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 point is, you have to tell them what you want to achieve or problem you want to solve. Most people go for a professional bike fit so that that they can achieve maximum pedaling efficiency for events that require lots of pedaling. unless you tell them you want to see further or get better control they're going to set you up for the "pro" look As the Captn said: I meant professional setup.
s14phoenix Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 point is, you have to tell them what you want to achieve or problem you want to solve. Most people go for a professional bike fit so that that they can achieve maximum pedaling efficiency for events that require lots of pedaling. unless you tell them you want to see further or get better control they're going to set you up for the "pro" look well lets start a story.... once upon a time a NOOB walks into a cycle shop....... so how exactly do you know how to setup someone that does not know what they want if an exact science cannot be applied... that is the problem. Very many cycling shops who offer professional setup are winging it from your measurements. and only once you are no longer a noob and actually know how you ride and sence for possibly what is wrong can the professional services really be utilized to "solve" a problem. One cannot solve a problem one does not know exists.
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