Dietitian's corner

[FlyingScot]

Sounds like you running a big engine there...

 

Dehydration could also reduce one's appetite so perhaps worth looking at your fluid intake before, during and after your sessions.

 

Are you tempted to take in some junk food on your training days, but becuase of mental discipline you stay away from it?

 

I try to drink 2 - 3 litres of water a day, outside of any water consumed on a ride.

 

On training days I have very little temptation for junk food, it really is not a big struggle from my side to stop the cravings. In fact, I have found that training when I get home from work is the best time to train. Firstly, it clears my mind and secondly, it stops the cravings for that evening.

[Dgas]

I normally do a long ride, about 3.5 hours, aprox 115km, on a Saturday morning. My kilojoule usage for the distance and time is around 15 000 kJ. (That is what my Garmin shows anyway) does that sound about right? My normall intake with no excersize should be max 9 300 kJ. That gives me 24 300 kJ for that day. I still watch what I eat but will normally be really hungry after a long ride, as long as my kJ intake does not exceed the 24 000 I should be ok?

I ride at home on a indoor trainer at least 3 times a week for at leat 90 minutes at a time, kilojoule usage for that time is around 5 800 kJ per session, I add that to my norm of 9 300 and make sure I stay well below the total of the two with food intake. Using that strategy I have remained more or less the same weight for the last few months. I am not looking to loose any weight at this point in time.

 

I also track my food intake and energy output for the whole week and as long as I dont exceed kJ in versus kJ out, weight should remain constant.

 

Would you say that I have got the basics of it?

[Sports Certified Dietitian]

I try to drink 2 - 3 litres of water a day, outside of any water consumed on a ride.

 

On training days I have very little temptation for junk food, it really is not a big struggle from my side to stop the cravings. In fact, I have found that training when I get home from work is the best time to train. Firstly, it clears my mind and secondly, it stops the cravings for that evening.

Sounds good flyingScot.

 

Where do you train now i.e. what type of training do you do?

[Sports Certified Dietitian]

I normally do a long ride, about 3.5 hours, aprox 115km, on a Saturday morning. My kilojoule usage for the distance and time is around 15 000 kJ. (That is what my Garmin shows anyway) does that sound about right? My normall intake with no excersize should be max 9 300 kJ. That gives me 24 300 kJ for that day. I still watch what I eat but will normally be really hungry after a long ride, as long as my kJ intake does not exceed the 24 000 I should be ok?

I ride at home on a indoor trainer at least 3 times a week for at leat 90 minutes at a time, kilojoule usage for that time is around 5 800 kJ per session, I add that to my norm of 9 300 and make sure I stay well below the total of the two with food intake. Using that strategy I have remained more or less the same weight for the last few months. I am not looking to loose any weight at this point in time.

 

I also track my food intake and energy output for the whole week and as long as I dont exceed kJ in versus kJ out, weight should remain constant.

 

Would you say that I have got the basics of it?

How much do you weigh and what is your bike weight?

[Dgas]

How much do you weigh and what is your bike weight?

I weigh 90kg and my bike around 6.5kg. I am 1.83m. Yes I know I could still drop a few kg's. But my wife is complaining that I look too thin, to her anyway.

[JannievanZyl]

It's 11pm and I am getting up in the morning to go and ride through a freezing cold Cradle. I don't have a list of websites lying handily next to my bed to post straight away. I will look up and post tomorrow. If you have nothing to do tonight, download ( Amazon) and read "The China Study" by Dr Colin T Campbell. It is the biggest and most comprehensive study ever done on cancer linked to diet.

I've read it and a number of papers by scientists showing the flaws in it.

[JannievanZyl]

Yes and some of the new ideas are not yet supported by sufficient peer reviewed research to have achieved critical mass. The negative effects of a new diet on long term health sometimes take time to manifest themselves. My GP's opinion on the LCHF thing is that the cardiac events that were going to occur in your 60's and 70's will now happen 10 years sooner....but not tomorrow. For me as a person whose family has a long history of cardiac issues I have to look further down the road than just tomorrow.... and a massive worldwide body of research says that a low fat diet is better for me. Are all those scientists wrong....and one local professor is not??

 

The key is balance and it is likely that the 'average' modern person's diet, including my own, is far too rich in carbs. This may be the reason that LCHF is so effective in the short term for many who try it......they cheat a bit with a beer here and some slap chips or a fruit juice there and actually achieve a better overall balance than before in spite of much higher fat intake. Long term though, we don't know for sure.......

 

Personally I think the proper balance lies somewhere in between.

 

Also, part of what has brought popularity and widespread acceptance of LCHF concept amongst active sporty people is the 'celebrity appeal' of the major proponent who has a big reputation in sport science and who has also proven himself adept at harnessing the publicity he generates. The idea of eating more of the foods that most diet plans would restrict is obviously appealing to many people. It flies in the face of a huge body of knowledge so this means that a thinking person should proceed cautiously.......

Your GP needs to read a bit more. 

 

But ask him to show you the studies that prove the causation between high fat diets and coronary disease. (hint; there are none, just speculation.)

[JannievanZyl]

A few points:

 

As Patch mentioned, I just got back from a 7-day ride from Venice to Stuttgart, right across the Alps that included climbs such as Stelvio, with over 4000m of climbing on the day.

Ate LCHF the whole week, on bike some droewors and nuts and lunch was typically a salad with the occasional glass of red (don't ask! ). Breakfast; ham and cheese and dinner more ham, cheese and salad.

 

The Cape Town DEXA scan crowd seems to have disappeared. I'll try and find out what happened to them.

Jeroen Swart's Sports Science Institute apparently also do these scans but they've never once answered my queries on getting a scan done.

[cadenceblur]

Indeed, I have not had a response from them. Sounds like some nice riding by the way!

[Dgas]

I've read it and a number of papers by scientists showing the flaws in it.

Took you a while, I still doubt you gave read it, but in any event, parade your new found knowledge before us.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Took you a while, I still doubt you gave read it, but in any event, parade your new found knowledge before us.

Cut back on the snark, hotshot. It's neither smart nor necessary. 

[Dgas]

Cut back on the snark, hotshot. It's neither smart nor necessary.

 

I just find it a bit unbelievable that jannievanzyl read a 417 page book, not a novel but a scientific study which makes quite heavy reading, plus all the scientific peer reviews, formed a opinion and cycled from Venice to Stutgard all in a period of a few days. Not arguing the ride, that must of been quite cool, just the amount of reading done.

 

After reading the study he feels that red meat and animal fat is still the healthiest form of nutrition available to man.

[Patchelicious]

I just find it a bit unbelievable that jannievanzyl read a 417 page book, not a novel but a scientific study which makes quite heavy reading, plus all the scientific peer reviews, formed a opinion and cycled from Venice to Stutgard all in a period of a few days. Not arguing the ride, that must of been quite cool, just the amount of reading done.

 

After reading the study he feels that red meat and animal fat is still the healthiest form of nutrition available to man.

I can assure you that he has read that, as well as many more papers.

 

This is a great topic, lets not spoil it with snarky remarks and assumptions on peoples knowledge.

 

Lets await a response and be constructive about this.

[Sports Certified Dietitian]

I weigh 90kg and my bike around 6.5kg. I am 1.83m. Yes I know I could still drop a few kg's. But my wife is complaining that I look too thin, to her anyway.

Using a formula that I have, which builds in body weight, your long ride expends about 16606kJ or 3969 kcal. Using the calculator found at  http://www.tribology-abc.com/calculators/cycling.htm , the long ride burns off 20287Kj or 4842 kcal. So the 15000kJ might be a slight underestimation of your energy expenditure.

 

Your indoor energy expenditure of 5800 + 9300 is spot on according to my calculations.

 

I think you most certainly have the basics covered, and the fact that your weight has been stable also indicates this.

 

I know your wife might give me stick, but you could lose a few more kg and derive many benefits in doing so, both cycling and healthwise.

 

Perhaps worth thinking about is the situation of averaging your weekly energy requirements and taking in a similar amount every day. Obviously post workout nutrition would be slightly different, but this approach removes the need to consume large amounts in one day just to maintain one’s weight. I’d also say that listening to your body and eating slightly intuitively on workout days is also important. Hope this helps?

[Sports Certified Dietitian]

I can assure you that he has read that, as well as many more papers.

 

This is a great topic, lets not spoil it with snarky remarks and assumptions on peoples knowledge.

 

Lets await a response and be constructive about this.

 

I can assure you that he has read that, as well as many more papers.

 

This is a great topic, lets not spoil it with snarky remarks and assumptions on peoples knowledge.

 

Lets await a response and be constructive about this.

I'm coming into this chat with a bit from a few conversations, so I'll give some input from my side.

 

As a scientist I'd love to be totally prescriptive with diet and be able to say to someone that they need to follow a specific type of eating as that is exactly right for them. For the most part that can’t be done. I do test DNA in my practice, and based on specific gene results, I can certainly point someone in the right direction with the type of diet they must follow. But as most people do not test their DNA, I use evidence currently available in the literature and also what a patient presents me with.

 

As everybody is unique genetically, a LCHF diet may well be suitable for some people, but I tend to agree that it is still early days and long term effects have not been determined yet. I’d be hesitant to implement this approach with everybody, and if I did implement it, it would need to be indicated for an individual.

 

One also has to be speaking about the same thing. Low carb diets can vary in the percentage/amount of carbs taken in, with 40% of energy even being classified as low carb. High fat intakes can also vary, with the type of fat being taken in playing an important role.

 

Reducing one’s carbs to a healthy level and ensuring the type of carb is rich in fibre and other nutrients, as well as ensuring the type of fat one takes in is a good one, is the approach I would tend to follow. The exact dietary prescription would depend on the person involved and their unique circumstances.

 

Although saturated fat has been non-demonised to a large degree of late, in the presence of a high carb diet it still elevates blood cholesterol (LDL) levels. At exactly what level of carbs this won’t happen and if it is the same for all people I don’t know at this time.

 

I still promote moderation with most things, including red meat intake. Sugar and saturated fats are pro-inflammatory in nature, and I think increasing dietary saturated fat substantially without knowing exactly how it will effect one is risky behaviour.

[BarHugger]

Cut back on the snark, hotshot. It's neither smart nor necessary. 

 Had to Google that one (SNARK)..........thought it was some type of new super-duper supplement seeing that this is a feeding frenzy thread........

 

......but alas........

 

 

....it is also bad for your health.