Dietitian's corner

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Must say, that was not the conclusion most people made on that Cochrane study. It does seem, superficially, that a reduction in saturated fat reduces CVD events. Till you read it carefully.

 

Here is a overview:

 

http://nutsci.org/2011/08/12/latest-cochrane-review-on-dietary-fats-and-cardiovascular-disease/

Thank you, Jannie.

 

CSD, would this qualify as scientific proof, in your eyes? And also as proof of how studies like these can and have been manipulated to suit a particular outcome through inference and just blatantly disregarding the actual data?

[Sports Certified Dietitian]

Thank you, Jannie.

 

CSD, would this qualify as scientific proof, in your eyes? And also as proof of how studies like these can and have been manipulated to suit a particular outcome through inference and just blatantly disregarding the actual data?

Copy/pasting the last two paragraphs from Vorland's blog here, this epitomises my thinking at the moment:

 

"Based on multiple, large meta-analyses from different study designs, saturated fat is still in a bit of hot water. But with all of this research we now know it is much less of a threat than originally thought. Increasing unsaturated fats (especially PUFA) still may have some benefits in the cardiovascular system.

 

And we can say with pretty good confidence that total fat (in the variation of most industrialized consumption) doesn’t need lowering."

 

Nutritional science has certainly shifted in the right direction, moving away from diets very high in carbs, especialy processed and refined carbs.

 

The dust will settle in this area in time, but we have to trust good research when it comes out to point the way and not extract what we see as meaningful to us and implement that.

[Sports Certified Dietitian]

I noticed the paper you posted on inflammation called PUFA pro-inflammatory.

 

Kinda what I said.

It certainly can be, especially in large quantities. Many people were ingesting omega-6:omega 3 at 16:1 ratios. Bringing it down to 4:1 by favouring the omega-3 sources (seen in the eicosanoid diagram I posted before) will have a beneficial effect in this area.

[Sports Certified Dietitian]

I'm saying the Carbs cause the fat deposition. Being in your area of knowledge, I don't think you need me to find you an article to back it up? If you do, I'm sure I can find some.

I don't think 49% carbs for an active sports person is excessive if one is not following Banting.

 

FYI, I've attached the study that was referred to for the central adiposity increase with SFA.

 

It's an oldish study, and when one starts reading one realises how far we've progressed since 98'.

 

Also, regarding an increased central adiposity due to SFA, this study used a 3-day dietary recall to make these conclusions, which is not very accurate for a variety of reasons.

1600500a.pdf

[Sports Certified Dietitian]

Which is now being shown as complete and utter codswallop,by an ever increasing body of evidence.

 

But hey. I don't know enough to form an educated opinion on this. I leave it up to guys like you and noakes etc. But when you are saying that you recommend the replacement of saturated fats with PUFAs, I stop listening.

I'm aware how popular saturated fat has become, with some good solid justification, but I think it is still a little bit early to say dump as much PUFA for SFA in your diet.

[Sports Certified Dietitian]

Hi Craig, I've heard from a doctor (GP) that according to on going studies at the moment (I think Germany) they have discovered that following a healthy lifestyle (diet) might cause mutation of the stem cells. Obviously this takes years.

 

In other words someone who has hereditary diabetics, can alter his genes by eating correctly so that his kids wont necessarily inherit these same genes.

 

She explained this in more medical terms and apparently this study is still in its early days, but the preliminary results so far is quite astonishing.

HBO, not sure I responded to this? Very interesting what you mentioned. So by looking after onself, one is also looking after possible future generations. I'd imagine that could promote compliance and motivation with one's diet...

[SimpleDom]

I don't think 49% carbs for an active sports person is excessive if one is not following Banting.

 

FYI, I've attached the study that was referred to for the central adiposity increase with SFA.

 

It's an oldish study, and when one starts reading one realises how far we've progressed since 98'.

 

Also, regarding an increased central adiposity due to SFA, this study used a 3-day dietary recall to make these conclusions, which is not very accurate for a variety of reasons.

 

OK. I'll try to find some things for you that back up what I'm about to say, because it's based on about 18 months of my own research, reading, and understanding, so I need to dig for a specific article.

 

The effects of Carbs on Fat deposition, are almost independent of anything else that you eat once you go over your bodies own threshold (this depends entirely on your own insulin resistance profile). I think the debates on how much fat you eat with the carbs are just distractions from the actual source of the problem.

 

I know that it doesn't exactly count as science to present the negative case as proof of the positive, but it's funny that everyone that cuts the carbs down decreases their fat stores. Yes, yes...I know, anecdotal evidence only.

[JannievanZyl]

It certainly can be, especially in large quantities. Many people were ingesting omega-6:omega 3 at 16:1 ratios. Bringing it down to 4:1 by favouring the omega-3 sources (seen in the eicosanoid diagram I posted before) will have a beneficial effect in this area.

1. You agree that inflammation is the big concern, correct? It underpins most, if not all, of the Metabolic Syndrome diseases such as Type 2 diabetes, high blood pressure, obesity, cancer, dementia, Alzheimer's, etc.

 

2. You also agree that oxidation of the fatty acid is a primary driver of cronic arterial inflammation, especially atherosclerosis?

 

3. (Assume) you further agree that it's the unsaturated bond that allows oxidation of the carbon string?

 

If yes to the above, you'll agree that to curb inflammation you want as few unsaturated bonds in your fat intake?

 

If so, the last fat you want is the one with the most unsaturated bonds, i.e. Poly-Unsaturated-Fatty-Acids - PUFAs - as these will be the most pro-inflammatory.

[HBO]

I must admit, I find this debate very stimulating.

 

there is nothing as good as positive, constructive debate....except riding your bike. (lol)

 

keep it up guys, I'm learning a lot here.

[Sports Certified Dietitian]

OK. I'll try to find some things for you that back up what I'm about to say, because it's based on about 18 months of my own research, reading, and understanding, so I need to dig for a specific article.

 

The effects of Carbs on Fat deposition, are almost independent of anything else that you eat once you go over your bodies own threshold (this depends entirely on your own insulin resistance profile). I think the debates on how much fat you eat with the carbs are just distractions from the actual source of the problem.

 

I know that it doesn't exactly count as science to present the negative case as proof of the positive, but it's funny that everyone that cuts the carbs down decreases their fat stores. Yes, yes...I know, anecdotal evidence only.

Energy balance?

 

I look forward to reading your next post.

[SimpleDom]

Energy balance?

 

I look forward to reading your next post.

I'm not sure what your asking? What about energy balance?

[Sports Certified Dietitian]

1. You agree that inflammation is the big concern, correct? It underpins most, if not all, of the Metabolic Syndrome diseases such as Type 2 diabetes, high blood pressure, obesity, cancer, dementia, Alzheimer's, etc.

 

2. You also agree that oxidation of the fatty acid is a primary driver of cronic arterial inflammation, especially atherosclerosis?

 

3. (Assume) you further agree that it's the unsaturated bond that allows oxidation of the carbon string?

 

If yes to the above, you'll agree that to curb inflammation you want as few unsaturated bonds in your fat intake?

 

If so, the last fat you want is the one with the most unsaturated bonds, i.e. Poly-Unsaturated-Fatty-Acids - PUFAs - as these will be the most pro-inflammatory.

It’s not as simple as that Jannie.

 

Let me make a point by giving an analogy. Exercise, like mountain biking, is fun and we can agree that it promotes health (if we don’t fall and get injured!). Yet exercise, especially moderate to high intensity exercise, also promotes inflammation. We need the body to heal and repair itself after exercise, and inflammation is included in that. So a bit of inflammation is good. Would we avoid exercise because inflammation is involved in numerous conditions, for example atherosclerosis? Hopefully not, but we would maybe include low-intensity workouts in our training and not just high intensity ones. That way we can keep inflammation controlled and not land up picking up injuries etc.

 

Polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA’s) consist of a group of fatty acids that have diverse characteristics and effects in the body. If you look at the attached file (EFA to eicosanoids) you’ll notice that there are two main columns, the omega-3 and the omega-6 columns. Both columns are PUFA, yet physiologically we react differently to them. The omega-6 fatty acid linoleic acid (LA), found in sunflower and corn oil, gives rise to greater amounts of arachidonic acid (AA) which gets converted into pro-inflammatory series 2 & 4 cytokines. This is the pink box in the diagram. Notice the meat and eggs slotting in just above the AA…

 

We therefore want to reduce our intake of PUFA containing lots of LA, and if you look at the oils comparison diagram attached, the blue bar in sunflower and corn oil is LA. If you saying that reducing PUFA’s in this context is indicated, then we agree with each other fully.

 

If we look at the omega-3 column on the left, consisting of alpha linolenic acid (ALA), eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) docosahexaenoic acid (DHA), we notice that these fatty acids, although PUFA, differ to the omega-6 PUFA’s on the right hand side. These PUFA’s give rise to series 3 & 5 cytokines, which have reduced inflammatory effects and can even be anti-inflammatory in nature. Hence we want to promote the intake of these fatty acids even though they are PUFA’s. This is the reason flaxseed oil, in moderation and not in cooking, is recommended, because if you look at the attached file (oils comparison) you’ll notice the brown bar with this oil, and this is ALA.

 

If I take three foodstuffs from the 3^rd attached file (fat content of oils by percentage), namely chicken fat, sardines and corn oil, what is interesting is the following: chicken fat has nearly 25% PUFA. One would try and reduce the sardines from one’s diet as the PUFA content is high, but as alluded to above, a large part of this PUFA is omega-3 and hence is good. Lastly, the corn oil is high in PUFA, but as we have discovered, this consists mostly of omega-6 fatty acids, and hence is bad.

 

Just a last point that I’d like to make. If I was Banting, I may have assumed that the chicken I am eating contains predominantly saturated fat, and if I now believe saturated fat is safe, I may be consuming chicken much more freely than before. As seen above, foods like chicken contain a mix of different components like fatty acids, and I’d still be consuming PUFA when trying to favour saturated fats. This PUFA would predominantly be on the omega-6 side of the eicosanoid diagram. Hence, if I don’t control saturated fat intake….I'm not controlling PUFA intake. Food for thought…?  

[Sports Certified Dietitian]

I'm not sure what your asking? What about energy balance?

Excess anything, including carbs, will result in adipose tissue.

[JannievanZyl]

It’s not as simple as that Jannie.

 

snip.....

Don't disagree wit what you posted above and it supports everything I said:

 

1. On exercise; remember we're talking chronic not acute inflammation. Doing a ride of few hours is very different from having inflamed arteries for years on end.

2. Agree that the PUFAs I'm referring to are the vegetable oils. Think I said so somewhere above. 

3. We're not overeating Omega 3 in any way whatsoever, it's the Omega 6's that we need to cut down on.

4. Your table above fully support this; basically avoid anything with lots of blue.

5. Your table also show very few options to get Omega 3 from the listed oils, thus - again - you can make a simplification by equating PUFAs primarily with Omega 6.

 

So, "avoid the PUFAs" will drive you to cut the plant oils and you'll be better off. Eat your fish and you'll get the 'good' poly's - the Omega 3's

 

But we agree on this.

[JannievanZyl]

Relatively simple read:

 

http://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/the-skinny-on-fats/

[Sports Certified Dietitian]

Don't disagree wit what you posted above and it supports everything I said:

 

1. On exercise; remember we're talking chronic not acute inflammation. Doing a ride of few hours is very different from having inflamed arteries for years on end.

2. Agree that the PUFAs I'm referring to are the vegetable oils. Think I said so somewhere above. 

3. We're not overeating Omega 3 in any way whatsoever, it's the Omega 6's that we need to cut down on.

4. Your table above fully support this; basically avoid anything with lots of blue.

5. Your table also show very few options to get Omega 3 from the listed oils, thus - again - you can make a simplification by equating PUFAs primarily with Omega 6.

 

So, "avoid the PUFAs" will drive you to cut the plant oils and you'll be better off. Eat your fish and you'll get the 'good' poly's - the Omega 3's

 

But we agree on this.

I'm glad we agree on this

 

Table attached for primary sources of omega-3 fatty acids FYI.

 

So this is the reason flaxseed and olive oil is recommended for something like a salad, and canola and avocado oil is recommended for cooking purposes.

 

Can anybody out there tell me another big reason why canola and avocado oil are suitable for cooking with? We're talking ideally not deep frying, but stir fry etc.