Epicbikeshop Cape Town . .VAT refund missing!

[Icycling]

This is interesting....in my 15 years of guiding...I've yet to hear a local jeweler tell the clients that they must pay the vat /tax when when they arrive back home...one of the selling points they use is,the vat refund ..so why pay vat on goods in your home country...maybe the laws are little different for peeps importing and exporting as a business than those buying for personal use...

I do believe the international Vat systems are getting more strict and one region now is taking to another region.

 

Fist time I noticed this was when I took a Ferry from Friedrichshafen (Germany) to Switzerland and I claim the Vat back on the German side for the bike (it was one bike and I travel on a RSA passport - was just a tourist). When I arrived on the Swiss side the customs officials were waiting for me - they already had the invoice from the German custom officers. Fortunately the vat in Switzerland was lower than Germany - this happened already quite a few years back.

[Skylark]

As an importer into RSA, all I can say is my suppliers in Europe require when I collect my stock both the customs stamp from The Netherlands showing the goods have left the EU and the SARS showing the goods have arrived in, in this case RSA. My understanding from my suppliers it is the law in Europe - keeping the check and balances in place. I suspect RSA is no different. Both my suppliers and myself are Vat registered and thus it is no problem to do things 100% correctly!

 

 

Most recent example repeated below:

 

 

That sounds accurate for an import/export business but not for a private individual. What you are describing is to prevent fraud when businesses claim the vat back for goods bought specifically for export which then never actually leave the country and are resold within the country of purchase without the vat ever being paid.

 

The onus is on the individual to declare goods upon arrival at their home country, no one needs import documents from their home country to claim the vat back from the country they are leaving.

Edited September 20, 2015 by Skylark

[spinning round]

Ok so the real problemis Epic yes / no

[urbanroyal]

 

That sounds accurate for an import/export business but not for a private individual. What you are describing is to prevent fraud when businesses claim the vat back for goods bought specifically for export which then never actually leave the country and are resold within the country of purchase without the vat ever being paid.

Makes sense. ..read somewhere SARS was taken for 39mil in fraudulent VAT claims recently....

 

Back to Epic Bike...pay back da money..☺

[urbanroyal]

Lol

[Icycling]

Ok so the real problemis Epic yes / no

How can Epic pay back the money they do not have it (the government has it), assuming they not Vat registered - maybe this will explain

 

All shops I supply even non vat registered shops need to pay my invoice including Vat - I paid the Vat on arrival of the good into RSA - I have to charge it. Likewise in Epic’s case they will need to pass this VAT charge onto the end user (remember as they not Vat registered they cannot claim the Vat back). If they are not Vat registered they cannot claim the Vat from their suppliers (business under X turnover {think 2 million} in RSA do not need to be Vat registered - thats the law in RSA) and they like many other shops just charge the end user the Vat. They have no VAT claims - Imput / Output Vat.

 

Its already been stated that Epic has applied for a Vat number - but this not an overnight process - it takes time ask anyone who has had to go through this process.

Edited September 20, 2015 by Icycling

[stringbean]

He already admits he's not vat registered.What has he been doing with the vat he's been charging his customers for the last 7 months?

[urbanroyal]

How can Epic pay back the money they do not have it (the government has it), assuming they not Vat registered - maybe this will explain

 

All shops I supply even non vat registered shops need to pay my invoice including Vat - I paid the Vat on arrival of the good into RSA - I have to charge it. Likewise in Epic’s case they will need to pass this VAT charge onto the end user (remember as they not Vat registered they cannot claim the Vat back). If they are not Vat registered they cannot claim the Vat from their suppliers (business under X turnover {think 2 million} in RSA do not need to be Vat registered - thats the law in RSA) and they like many other shops just charge the end user the Vat. They have no VAT claims - Imput / Output Vat.

 

Its already been stated that Epic has applied for a Vat number - but this not an overnight process - it takes time ask anyone who has had to go through this process.

But the point is they told the OP..he can claim it back.....based on that he bought the bike....Epic should pay the VAT amount to Americo. ...thats what I would have done...SARS is one organisation you don't wanna mess with..☺

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

He already admits he's not vat registered.What has he been doing with the vat he's been charging his customers for the last 7 months?

Still paying to SARS, I would imagine. That is the same regardless of whether you are VAT registered or not, and they are OBLIGED to charge VAT on all that they sell. 

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

But the point is they told the OP..he can claim it back.....based on that he bought the bike....Epic should pay the VAT amount to Americo. ...thats what I would have done...SARS is one organisation you don't wanna mess with..☺

Epic will still have to pay the VAT charged on the sale across to SARS. There's no getting around that. 

 

They can't just offset an amount paid to Americo, which they were never obliged to pay him in the first place (SARS were as part of the double taxation agreements between countries, and my understanding is that they would just refund him the VAT that Epic paid across to them, and he would have to, by law, pay VAT when he arrived in the EU, otherwise he'd be defrauding SARS)

 

From what I've seen, Epic told him that he should be able to claim it back at the airport, but that they were not entirely sure on how that side of it worked. Americo doesn't have a claim against Epic, he has a claim against SARS, of the amount of VAT that Epic paid them after the sale. 

 

For Epic to "refund" the VAT would not be ethical business practice, IMO. But then, I'm not well versed in the matters of VAT, so I could be wrong on the abovementioned stuff.

Edited September 20, 2015 by Myles Mayhew

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

The question begs though... HAVE you paid your local VAT on arrival for the bike?

 

Cos if you haven't, you're not only dodging tax on your side, but your very actions here by demanding a refund are immoral.

 

If you have paid local VAT (on arrival in the EU) then it's a different story.

[urbanroyal]

Epic will still have to pay the VAT charged on the sale across to SARS. There's no getting around that.

 

They can't just offset an amount paid to Americo, which they were never obliged to pay him in the first place (SARS were as part of the double taxation agreements between countries, and my understanding is that they would just refund him the VAT that Epic paid across to them, and he would have to, by law, pay VAT when he arrived in the EU, otherwise he'd be defrauding SARS)

 

From what I've seen, Epic told him that he should be able to claim it back at the airport, but that they were not entirely sure on how that side of it worked. Americo doesn't have a claim against Epic, he has a claim against SARS, of the amount of VAT that Epic paid them after the sale.

 

For Epic to "refund" the VAT would not be ethical business practice, IMO. But then, I'm not well versed in the matters of VAT, so I could be wrong on the abovementioned stuff.

Sure ..legally they don't have to pay Americo....but he is pissed 'cos they told him he could claim it back... as we know...this could not happen due to Epics paperwork not being in order....due to this I think Epic should pay Americo the Vat Amount. .

[stringbean]

Solution is easy.Contact sars,present your case with your invoice you received from epic and let them sort it out OP.

[Icycling]

He already admits he's not vat registered.What has he been doing with the vat he's been charging his customers for the last 7 months?

He pays Vat on supply invoice - no more legs in the chain of pay and claim as he is not Vat registered.

[KingTJ]

Lol

What Zuma owns Epic bike store?

[Icycling]

Solution is easy.Contact sars,present your case with your invoice you received from epic and let them sort it out OP.

SARS will ask if Vat was paid in the EU - if so I sure SARS will be quite happy to assist in him getting the VAT back - even if Epic is not Vat registered they may ask Epic to go 1 supplier deeper in the chain.