New Zealand - The Good, The Bad and The Ugly.

[patches]

Slack. Go with AA Insurance, problem free (and I have had cause for claim in the past, always the best test of an insurer) and even that was smooth, fast and easy. Any changes to the premium, policy, your details etc, you get an email confirming same straight away.

Avoid Tower like the plague. Effing useless.

 

This particular insurer is underwritten by Vero. Neither have been in contact with me regarding any of the above.

 

My other bike was insured with Youi (which then got taken over by Tower). So good to note that they may be troublesome.

 

I did look into AA as I am a member, but even with member discounts they were a lot more expensive. In fact when it comes to insuring an Austrian enduro bike for road use, most insurers treat your like you're trying to insure a homemade nuclear powered jetpack with anthrax crop-dusting capabilities. The premiums were astronomical, ranging from around $60pm to $150pm (all for comprehensive). So I chose the $60pm option (Youi)

Edited August 19, 2020 by patches

[intern]

This particular insurer is underwritten by Vero. Neither have been in contact with me regarding any of the above.

 

My other bike was insured with Youi (which then got taken over by Tower). So good to note that they may be troublesome.

 

I did look into AA as I am a member, but even with member discounts they were a lot more expensive. In fact when it comes to insuring an Austrian enduro bike for road use, most insurers treat your like you're trying to insure a homemade nuclear powered jetpack with anthrax crop-dusting capabilities. The premiums were astronomical, ranging from around $60pm to $150pm (all for comprehensive). So I chose the $60pm option (Youi)

 

Stay away from Youi too! I used to write a ton of content for insurers in South Africa including Outsurance, Auto & General and MiWay. Youi was an SA company started by Outsurance for the ANZ market; Outsurance itself isn't the best reputed company, relying on 'cleverness' for its marketing (look at the stunningly smart name). Youi has a similar approach...and it was busted big time for dodgy sales practices here a few years ago (around '15 or '16 I think) and their whole sales schtick is just that, schtick.

Probably a good fit with Tower, come to think of it.

Anyway, the real test of insurance is never what it cost, but how well it performs at claim time. And in my experience, AA is A+ so any stuff I have covered with them, I have confidence that it is indeed covered...

[davetapson]

The bad...

 

Insurance companies and their universal scum-baggery! (apologies in advance to any ethically sound insurance brokers who may be reading this).

 

I have a road legal Husqvarna enduro bike insured with a a motorcycle specific insurer (underwritten by one of the big guns of course). I went with them 4yrs ago because they had the best deal.

 

I have noticed that my premiums have increased threefold in the past 12 months. This is likely due to the fact that the bike's WOF and Rego have expired (as it has not been ridden in nearly 18 months).

 

Fair enough that the insurer's liability increases if the bike is no longer road legal, however I have 2 issues with this:

1. Surely if the bike is no longer road legal and an accident occurs on the road the insurer can refuse to support any claims, therefore an increase in premium is negated.
2. (and what bugs me the most) is that there was not 1 single imail/text/call form them to advise me of the increase in premium or why they were doing so. Had they simply informed me I would have adjusted/cancelled my cover.

So yeah, having had similar insurance experiences in SA, this has illustrated to me that the underhandedness is universal.

Having been involved in insurance from a programming point of view, I have an idea of how they see it - which runs something like: Well, you tell us what you want insured and the circumstances involved in insuring that item.  We have to take what you say on trust.  If we find that the what you told us when we worked out your risk using what you told us as not to be the case, we say you broke trust and act accordingly.

 

But yeah, you'd think they'd inform you if they were going to change your premium and why, so that you have a chance to respond.  That is pretty underhand.  In fact it's hard to understand how, in NZ, where there are all sorts of protections for the consumer, it's even legal.

 

Edit: got one car on AA and one on some no-name brand (to me) that was suggested by Turners.  Maybe time to get it onto AA.

 

Edit edit: DPL Insurance, a wholly owned subsidiary of Turners, interestingly enough.

Edited August 20, 2020 by davetapson

[intern]

Having been involved in insurance from a programming point of view, I have an idea of how they see it - which runs something like: Well, you tell us what you want insured and the circumstances involved in insuring that item.  We have to take what you say on trust.  If we find that the what you told us when we worked out your risk using what you told us as not to be the case, we say you broke trust and act accordingly.

 

But yeah, you'd think they'd inform you if they were going to change your premium and why, so that you have a chance to respond.  That is pretty underhand.  In fact it's hard to understand how, in NZ, where there are all sorts of protections for the consumer, it's even legal.

 

Edit: got one car on AA and one on some no-name brand (to me) that was suggested by Turners.  Maybe time to get it onto AA.

 

That's exactly how insurers work; you have a duty to be honest, if you aren't they have a perfectly legitimate reason to decline a claim (if it comes to that).

 

Patches I would complain loudly in your case; the ombudsman is here https://www.ifso.nz/ and just raising the spectre of the ombudsman will likely secure a refund (because getting O involved costs the insurer way more than a refund will, even if they win).

And the O has teeth, too, and isn't afraid to use them.

[Wayne Potgieter]

That's exactly how insurers work; you have a duty to be honest, if you aren't they have a perfectly legitimate reason to decline a claim (if it comes to that).

 

Patches I would complain loudly in your case; the ombudsman is here https://www.ifso.nz/ and just raising the spectre of the ombudsman will likely secure a refund (because getting O involved costs the insurer way more than a refund will, even if they win).

And the O has teeth, too, and isn't afraid to use them.

Do this ...

[patham]

Having been involved in insurance from a programming point of view, I have an idea of how they see it - which runs something like: Well, you tell us what you want insured and the circumstances involved in insuring that item.  We have to take what you say on trust.  If we find that the what you told us when we worked out your risk using what you told us as not to be the case, we say you broke trust and act accordingly.

 

But yeah, you'd think they'd inform you if they were going to change your premium and why, so that you have a chance to respond.  That is pretty underhand.  In fact it's hard to understand how, in NZ, where there are all sorts of protections for the consumer, it's even legal.

 

Edit: got one car on AA and one on some no-name brand (to me) that was suggested by Turners.  Maybe time to get it onto AA.

 

Edit edit: DPL Insurance, a wholly owned subsidiary of Turners, interestingly enough.

 

You forgot to mention the other algorithm that is embedded in most insurers programming.

 

IF CUSTOMER LOYALTY > 2 YEARS, SNEAK PREMIUMS UP UNTIL COMPLAINTS = POSITIVE

 

Literally, nearly all the companies I have been with on both sides of the pond will try and see if their loyal, non-claiming customers can be nudged into paying higher premiums, i.e. see if they check their mails and debit orders.

 

For my house cover the increases went like 5%, 4%, 5% and then a year ago 72%. What chancers. Went to the same company who covered my cars and had better cover underwritten at the previous years price.

 

What is really strange here is that you cannot bundle assets together under an umbrella policy to get the benefit of a single admin fee.

 

But agreed, best insurance company is the one who pays up. When my car went rolling down the hill after a handbrake failure, and through the house at the bottom of the street, Allianz paid up everything including the repairs for the third party without me needing to put pen to paper. Literally one phone call was all I ever made. And the assessor gave me more than a fair market value for my car seeing as it was in pristine, low mileage condition. So will stick with them for a while...they didn't even penalise me much for losing my no-claim status. 

[davetapson]

IF CUSTOMER LOYALTY > 2 YEARS, SNEAK PREMIUMS UP UNTIL COMPLAINTS = POSITIVE

 

 

And then, after 5 years of paying more than you need to, when you decide to move to somewhere (now) cheaper - "Oh, let's see what we can do... oh, look, we can give you a 30% discount..."

 

Which means every year you should phone your insurer/s and say "I'm leaving" and see what they stump up.

[patham]

And then, after 5 years of paying more than you need to, when you decide to move to somewhere (now) cheaper - "Oh, let's see what we can do... oh, look, we can give you a 30% discount..."

 

Which means every year you should phone your insurer/s and say "I'm leaving" and see what they stump up.

 

Zigackly !

 

Although after the 70% rise I wan't giving them a second chance. I had lost the faith. 

[intern]

And then, after 5 years of paying more than you need to, when you decide to move to somewhere (now) cheaper - "Oh, let's see what we can do... oh, look, we can give you a 30% discount..."

 

Which means every year you should phone your insurer/s and say "I'm leaving" and see what they stump up.

 

This tactic sort of goes to the heart of the unethical business practices case Youi was embroiled in...

[intern]

Zigackly !

 

Although after the 70% rise I wan't giving them a second chance. I had lost the faith. 

 

When brinkmanship overtakes customer service.

[patches]

I contacted the broker and asked why the premiums had escalated over the last year.

He was surprised (or at least acted as such) and said that they prided themselves on no premium increases for the past 5yrs, and he would have to check with Vero as to why the increase.

Still waiting to hear back.

[patches]

@All the Aucklanders, what's your guess for today's announcement?

Level 3 for X more weeks?

Level 2?

Level 2.5 (whatever that may be?

[davetapson]

@All the Aucklanders, what's your guess for today's announcement?

 

Level 3 for X more weeks?

Level 2?

Level 2.5 (whatever that may be?

2.5 - Aucklanders go back to work but stay in Auckland. Maybe.

[patches]

2.5 - Aucklanders go back to work but stay in Auckland. Maybe.

 

I think you may be right.

 

I'd be surprised if we go full L2. Surely there will be some caveat.

[davetapson]

I think you may be right.

 

I'd be surprised if we go full L2. Surely there will be some caveat.

 

L3.  They squeaking it out week by week...

[Steven Knoetze (sk27)]

Making it up as you go along........ which is fair in a sense but there is so much data now showing you cannot hide, and it will not go away. Furthermore, lockdowns are in effective and do more harm than good.