New Zealand - The Good, The Bad and The Ugly.

[Slowbee]

Thanks for the heart failures guys! Not that I need more. Deciding what stays and what goes has me at the hairdresser trying to cover the grey/gray/grey.

But, I asked Wayne this, but thought it best on open forum. Is there anything you regret not taking over with you ? Either something you sold or gave away here that you wished you had taken? Anything you miss?

And since this is a cycling forum, did you guys take your bikes and bike kit with you ? As space (and hence money) is of concern to us we are weighing everything up. The main problem being, not many people are moving to NZ from SA, so being part of a group ship means you have no idea when your stuff is going to arrive (naturally the cheapest option). I would land up buying an N+1 if I did not know when the bikes were arriving. If we take a 20ft container, it will only be half filled and we would know more or less when the bikes arrive. However this is crap expensive as the container will mostly be empty. If we are what is called a cube container, we have to cut down HEAVILY on everything we take. Maybe even put 2 bikes on the plane with us (my daughter wants to cycle to school and new friends homes on her bike. Given she is on the spectrum selling her favourite blue pony for another one, is not going to work, let alone waiting 3 months or unspecified time to get it).

Basically any of you take your bikes ? Any regrets leaving behind a bike ?

 

[davetapson]

For me, bring sentimental stuff (except pets), the rest is just stuff.  If you're sentimental about your bikes, or they are high end, bring them.

SA furniture tends to be too big for Kiwi houses, unless you already live in a Townhouse, in which case, probably OK.

Rental properties usually come with dishwasher, sometimes washing machine and dryer.  

Fridge may or may not fit in kitchen, esp. if double door.  We've been in three properties, double door would not have fit in any, and have had to take off overhead cupboards over fridge in two properties - bought the fridge here and it is a pretty standard size I'd think.

Furniture is not cheap, but shipping it is not cheap either.  Have a look on line, see what you think of prices vs shipping.

Pets, make a plan to leave them.  Friends brought out their two beloved dogs.  Couple years later both dogs are dead and the cost to get them here was considerable.  We made a plan for four, so it's not like I'm not walking the talk.

I brought out all our bikes, bike stuff, tools.  Have no regrets.  But then we're not the kind of people that turn over bikes regularly, so wouldn't be looking to spend $$$ on getting new ones here. The only thing I regret not bringing is our Weber, but there was no space for it and they are flpn expensive here.

We have a couch in the garage that doesn't fit anywhere in the house, and the house is not that small by Kiwi standards.

But relatively speaking, I think Saffas accumulate an amazing amount of crap compared to Kiwis, including clothes.  They wear the same few things over and over, we have cupboards full (not really, but you know what I mean) of stuff that never gets worn.

I'd also not be stressing about the time it takes to get your stuff here... it's a blip in the timeline of the rest of your life.  Go buy some cheap stuff from Warehouse to make do until it arrives, or leave it all behind and buy new this side.

We used 20ft container for a family of five, and some break bulk stuff - strip build canoe, big old Rhodesian Teak outdoor table that my father made.

[Slowbee]

Thanks Dave

That gives me a guide.

What about camping stuff ? Things like camping chairs and table? National Luna fridge freezer ? Gazebo etc? We dont use tents, but sleep in the campervan. But should we bring or buy new ? Replacement cost vs shipping cost. It is a real bugger!

As overlanders, we have a fair amount of camping kit. Should be bring it, or leave it?

[davetapson]

I brought the stuff that was in good nick, chucked the stuff that was old.  

Cheap camping chairs are just about for free from Bunnings - $5 or so, but don't last long on uneven ground.  Tables I bought here, also from Bunnings.  Check their website.  Gazebo needs to be seriously wind proof.  Fridge may be worth bringing if its a good one.

Gas fittings are different here, so don't bring SA gas bottles.  You can replace the connectors with local versions if you choose to go that route.

Best thing is to price that stuff up. 

Hunting and Fishing will give you a reasonable price (i.e. not particularly cheap, so you don't get suckered into thinking you'll get it cheaper here), Bivouc Outdoors, Katmandu, Macpac, Torpedo7.

Makro level stuff from Bunnings.

Top-gear.co.nz for more specialized stuff.

In NZ you need waterproof, layered clothing.  I buy stuff from Bushbuck.co.nz which is pretty cheap when on special and seems pretty good quality.

Seriously warm sleeping bags are necessary.

Ha - yes, one think I'd DEARLY loved to have brought - our Campmaster trailer.  They just don't do light, closed, water proof trailers here.  I enquired at one place and the thought was that they are just too labour intensive to make here.  The typical trailer her is this  and they are just crap at being Venter/Campmaster trailers. Heavy, clunky, shallow, not water/dust proof. Noisy because they bounce about on hard springs.  And expensive.

I normally hire one for our holidays - best price is about $40/day.  Makes sense to buy one sometime given what I've paid in rental fees, but haven't bit the bullet.  Storage space for that kind of thing is a hassle.

[Slowbee]

Any of you willing to share your physical address ?

I need to get a 2 box's of items delivered. Busy buying goodies (totally not related to moving over I might add. Its something I have wanted for so long it has now become a needed item).
But I need to put in a delivery address as the company cannot hold the stock till we arrive.

Maybe message me if you want comm's over email or whats app.

As we are likely to be traveling/exploring for one or two weeks when we are released from MIQ and this from Auckland, we can come collect said item.

[GrahamS2]

13 hours ago, Slowbee said:

Thanks for the heart failures guys! Not that I need more. Deciding what stays and what goes has me at the hairdresser trying to cover the grey/gray/grey.

But, I asked Wayne this, but thought it best on open forum. Is there anything you regret not taking over with you ? Either something you sold or gave away here that you wished you had taken? Anything you miss?

And since this is a cycling forum, did you guys take your bikes and bike kit with you ? As space (and hence money) is of concern to us we are weighing everything up. The main problem being, not many people are moving to NZ from SA, so being part of a group ship means you have no idea when your stuff is going to arrive (naturally the cheapest option). I would land up buying an N+1 if I did not know when the bikes were arriving. If we take a 20ft container, it will only be half filled and we would know more or less when the bikes arrive. However this is crap expensive as the container will mostly be empty. If we are what is called a cube container, we have to cut down HEAVILY on everything we take. Maybe even put 2 bikes on the plane with us (my daughter wants to cycle to school and new friends homes on her bike. Given she is on the spectrum selling her favourite blue pony for another one, is not going to work, let alone waiting 3 months or unspecified time to get it).

Basically any of you take your bikes ? Any regrets leaving behind a bike ?

 

I'll give you a lengthy reply later (or feel free to PM me), but this is my take having done this 2.5 years ago.

I took everything (except white goods), and on the one hand it's nice to have the creature comforts of home to help settle you in, but it creates an admin burden when you have 116 boxes to sort and unpack and store, all while you live in limbo between renting and buying. In 2.5 years I've tossed or replaced about 75% of what I paid R100k to bring here... 

If I did it again I'd take personal effects, sentimental items, a few worthwhile kitchen items, bicycles and parts, tools and lots of hardware, and fishing gear. Use it as a fresh start to get new furniture, beds, linen, TV, fridge etc. and it will simplify the process a lot. 

It's so hard having to tell kids to give their things away or sell them, but they are resilient and adapt in no time. Once you add in the ~R3500+ per sqm it costs to get things over here, you can start to look at some nice options on this side to replace - try make it a fun process for them.

Anyway, my 2c worth...

[patham]

12 hours ago, davetapson said:

SA furniture tends to be too big for Kiwi houses, unless you already live in a Townhouse, in which case, probably OK.

Rental properties usually come with dishwasher, sometimes washing machine and dryer.  

Fridge may or may not fit in kitchen, esp. if double door.  We've been in three properties, double door would not have fit in any, and have had to take off overhead cupboards over fridge in two properties - bought the fridge here and it is a pretty standard size I'd think.

Furniture is not cheap, but shipping it is not cheap either.  Have a look on line, see what you think of prices vs shipping.

But relatively speaking, I think Saffas accumulate an amazing amount of crap compared to Kiwis, including clothes.  They wear the same few things over and over, we have cupboards full (not really, but you know what I mean) of stuff that never gets worn.

I'd also not be stressing about the time it takes to get your stuff here... it's a blip in the timeline of the rest of your life.  Go buy some cheap stuff from Warehouse to make do until it arrives, or leave it all behind and buy new this side.

We used 20ft container for a family of five, and some break bulk stuff - strip build canoe, big old Rhodesian Teak outdoor table that my father made.

To follow on from this.

 

Yes, most furniture from SA is too big for houses in Aus & NZ. But certainly in Aus, furniture is either cheap flatpack rubbish, or expensive Indonesian rubbish, or ultra expensive. So weed you stuff out for size and quality, but try and bring your quality stuff over. Life is too short for flatpacked, wobbly kitchen tables. I don't regret brining the rhodesian teak outdoor set, the kiaat dining room set (which is now the lockdown office furniture) and buffalo leather couches. But I will admit that these possessions can limit suitability of the available housing. 

In Aus, most older houses do not fit reasonable family sized fridges. What many people do here though is have the daily use "slim" fridge in the kitchen, and keep the big fridge/freezer in the garage. As theft rates are low (but certainly not zero), many folk in the suburbs park on the street and use the garage for storage. 

Don't bother with the dishwasher (I think) - looks like many are built in. We used a 40 ft container, but the guys packed very efficiently into the front half, so there was loads of room left over. And I will admit we brought too much. You have to weed out the boxes of university correspondence that you haven't looked at for 20 years before you move!

Garden tools, ladders etc we all left behind. Mainly for bio-security - those items often get pinged and then you get charged a cleaning / disinfection fee that is too high relative to the replacement cost.

 

 

 

[patham]

13 minutes ago, GrahamS2 said:

I took everything (except white goods), and on the one hand it's nice to have the creature comforts of home to help settle you in, but it creates an admin burden when you have 116 boxes to sort and unpack and store, all while you live in limbo between renting and buying. In 2.5 years I've tossed or replaced about 75% of what I paid R100k to bring here... 

 

I agree on this part- its the random boxes of junk that are the worst. Far more trouble than the beds etc. In our rental on arrival we had an entire room filled with boxes of stuff. And in the end you realise that if you could live without the stuff that's in the boxes for 6 months, you probably didn't need it in your life anyway. 

[GrahamS2]

37 minutes ago, patham said:

To follow on from this.

 

Yes, most furniture from SA is too big for houses in Aus & NZ. But certainly in Aus, furniture is either cheap flatpack rubbish, or expensive Indonesian rubbish, or ultra expensive. So weed you stuff out for size and quality, but try and bring your quality stuff over. Life is too short for flatpacked, wobbly kitchen tables. I don't regret brining the rhodesian teak outdoor set, the kiaat dining room set (which is now the lockdown office furniture) and buffalo leather couches. But I will admit that these possessions can limit suitability of the available housing. 

In Aus, most older houses do not fit reasonable family sized fridges. What many people do here though is have the daily use "slim" fridge in the kitchen, and keep the big fridge/freezer in the garage. As theft rates are low (but certainly not zero), many folk in the suburbs park on the street and use the garage for storage. 

Don't bother with the dishwasher (I think) - looks like many are built in. We used a 40 ft container, but the guys packed very efficiently into the front half, so there was loads of room left over. And I will admit we brought too much. You have to weed out the boxes of university correspondence that you haven't looked at for 20 years before you move!

Garden tools, ladders etc we all left behind. Mainly for bio-security - those items often get pinged and then you get charged a cleaning / disinfection fee that is too high relative to the replacement cost.

 

 

 

Spot on! Bicycles, camping gear, gardening equipment, and fishing gear all trigger an inspection (which comes with an additional fee, surprise surprise...). I bought my lawnmower, leaf blower, bbq, etc. etc. All of which I've replaced. When I think of the time I spent cleaning those prior to packing, and the cost to move here (only to be replaced), it makes me want to cry.

[patches]

16 hours ago, Slowbee said:

Thanks for the heart failures guys! Not that I need more. Deciding what stays and what goes has me at the hairdresser trying to cover the grey/gray/grey.

But, I asked Wayne this, but thought it best on open forum. Is there anything you regret not taking over with you ? Either something you sold or gave away here that you wished you had taken? Anything you miss?

And since this is a cycling forum, did you guys take your bikes and bike kit with you ? As space (and hence money) is of concern to us we are weighing everything up. The main problem being, not many people are moving to NZ from SA, so being part of a group ship means you have no idea when your stuff is going to arrive (naturally the cheapest option). I would land up buying an N+1 if I did not know when the bikes were arriving. If we take a 20ft container, it will only be half filled and we would know more or less when the bikes arrive. However this is crap expensive as the container will mostly be empty. If we are what is called a cube container, we have to cut down HEAVILY on everything we take. Maybe even put 2 bikes on the plane with us (my daughter wants to cycle to school and new friends homes on her bike. Given she is on the spectrum selling her favourite blue pony for another one, is not going to work, let alone waiting 3 months or unspecified time to get it).

Basically any of you take your bikes ? Any regrets leaving behind a bike ?

 

As previously mentioned, my move over to NZ was very light on the luggage side (but being a single lad did assist that). I also never shipped any containers etc. Here are some of my take aways...

Flying with a bike... Yup! Easy as (kiwi speak for "no worries")! I had 5 bikes in SA. I planned on taking 3 to NZ, Sold the other 2. I cleaned and packed all 3 into boxes before I left, but was only taking 1 with me on the initial flight. Stored the other 2 boxed bikes at my Mom's house. Went and retrieved a 2nd one 2 years later on a visit, but decided to sell the 3rd during that trip as life in NZ made me realise I really didn't need it.

Also worth considering when flying with bikes to NZ

• Boxes are the lightest packaging option (I tell myself that each time I'm tempted to buy a flashy Evoc bike bag ???? )
• Clean bikes thoroughly beforehand, specially MTBs. Biosecurity will see a bike box/bag, ask if its an MTB, and likely want to inspect. With mine they even checked the seatpost tube.
• In terms of MTBs, NZ is very trail/enduro focused. So if you have to choose between an XC and a trail/enduro bike, you'll probably get more use out of the latter. My 3 boxed bikes were a downhill, Enduro, and slopestyle/4X bike. I flew with the enduro. Retrieved the 4X (as it's 1 of only 2 in existence) and sold the DH bike.

Excess Luggage... As I flew with a bike and was relocating my life with what I could carry including 1 bike, I needed some excess luggage for the flight over. I flew Qantas (most direct route. JHB-SYD-CHC, 18hrs total). I priced excess luggage and ticket options and this was the outcome (keeping in mind this was in March 2016, and I booked the flights only a week out form my departure due to visa delays)

• 1 way flight to JHB to Christchurch = approx R10,000 (Return flight was around R12,500)
• 20kg Excess baggage (to allow for the bike) = approx R8,000
• 1 way Premium Economy ticket, which included: 2nd 23kg bag, 2nd 7kg hand luggage, better seats, business lounge access in Sydney as the SYD-CHC flight was Business class (no Premium economy on that route at the time) = approx R20,000

So I went with the Premium Economy option as I had no planned time frame to return for a visit.

This was the sum total of my luggage:

Side Note: Christchurch Airport has a bike assembly station with tools, pump etc, right outside the front doors, for those that fly in and want to build bikes right away to get on some trails.

So in summary, yes I took 1 bike (and another later). I also left a bunch behind. No real regrets at leaving the others behind due to:

• Less time riding as I explored and experienced the new adventure (plus no riding buddies or "Spruit". That said, Chch has PLENTY of easily accessible trails).
• Limited space in my first rental
• The acquisition of a dirt bike (so got lazy)
• Acquisition of a new MTB in NZ (Many options here, so many sales too, plus MTBs are constantly evolving/improving so no use crying over the 5yr old bikes I left behind).
• Different focuses in life. Still love riding, but hobby-whored myself to a whole lot of new things since being here.

Hope that helps

 

Edited August 6, 2021 by patches

[Slowbee]

Thanks Guys.

 

Looks like the choice is reality is going to be money regret or emotional regret. But no matter how we look at this, there is going to be some regret and spilt milk. But once the milk is gone, just let it go.

 

So lets talk some real stuff!!!
Spez Epic Evo 2020 model, so still new (but not Hub new) is it suited for NZ or do we take the knock and sell?
Remember like most of you we will find new things to do. If the bikes are only suited to 50% of the trails and we can ride the dirt roads the other 50% then that would be great.

I am also bringing the gravel bike and road bike and Mrs Slowbee bike's. My daughter has firmly put her foot down and told us to sell her blue pony, since she wants to ride a NZ bike in NZ. She does not want to ride a bike that will be different from the ones at the school she will be going to. Not that we know what school. But Miss Slowbee Junior, is like her mother. When the foot foot is put down, not even an open spending credit card will move that foot!

 

 

[patham]

18 hours ago, Slowbee said:

So lets talk some real stuff!!!
Spez Epic Evo 2020 model, so still new (but not Hub new) is it suited for NZ or do we take the knock and sell?
Remember like most of you we will find new things to do. If the bikes are only suited to 50% of the trails and we can ride the dirt roads the other 50% then that would be great.

 

Slowbee, all I know is that NZ trails are typically one or two levels up (in terms of technicality) from what I ride here in Aus, which is a level up from Gauteng.

My answer is that I used my 100 mm full sus XC bike for 2 years here, but I lost confidence after an OTB and a suspected dislocated jaw (PS - no-one tell the wife - that was an unreported injury). I then moved to 140 mm travel and slacker geometry trail bikes which I think are better suited. My son has had enough of 140 mm, and is waiting for the next batch of 160 mm Jeffsy's to arrive,, but I think I am at my gnarly comfort level.

Having said that - it depends where you are on the [skills/ability/confidence vs nominal bike capability] matrix. There is one dude I see on my trails on a custom built zero-suspension touring bike (relies on thick tyres and a flexy truss -shaped front fork to absorb the knocks), and he seems to do fine. He said after doing many, many thousands of km on that bike, it just feels natural to him and he can't consider changing. And there are one or two XC  hardtail race snakes who zoom past me (twice- because they do laps!), and they just have the skills to handle the terrain with the bike they know.

So in short - the Epic probably not ideal, but you could make it work on selected rides. I do think you will be able to sell it in Spez & marathon mad SA for far more than if you sold it in NZ.

 

[patches]

On 8/6/2021 at 9:04 PM, Slowbee said:

Thanks Guys.

 

Looks like the choice is reality is going to be money regret or emotional regret. But no matter how we look at this, there is going to be some regret and spilt milk. But once the milk is gone, just let it go.

 

So lets talk some real stuff!!!
Spez Epic Evo 2020 model, so still new (but not Hub new) is it suited for NZ or do we take the knock and sell?
Remember like most of you we will find new things to do. If the bikes are only suited to 50% of the trails and we can ride the dirt roads the other 50% then that would be great.

I am also bringing the gravel bike and road bike and Mrs Slowbee bike's. My daughter has firmly put her foot down and told us to sell her blue pony, since she wants to ride a NZ bike in NZ. She does not want to ride a bike that will be different from the ones at the school she will be going to. Not that we know what school. But Miss Slowbee Junior, is like her mother. When the foot foot is put down, not even an open spending credit card will move that foot!

 

 

Hmm that's a tough one, I'd be inclined to sell and go for a 130-140mm trail bike, but in reality if you still want to ride XCM type rides, you can find them.

XC bike in the Chch

Christchurch itself is flat. I mean pancake flat. And the City Council has been spending a lot of time and money into developing the cycleways. So commuting could very much be on the cards. However, I know it's unlikely you'll plan to use that Spez Epic for commuting, so consider a commuter an n+1 you may want to acquire this end. Loads of new options available, and many also find joy in reviving 20yr old hardtail MTB's (like Giant Boulders) to kit out for commuting.

Hagley park is another factor. There are some awesome walking and cycling paths in the 165 hectare park. Great place to spend time with the family. A hardcore XC bike is an overkill for that too, but it is somewhere one could clock up miles if they wanted to do laps.

The Outskirts

The surrounds of Christchurch are less flat... as in not at all. The Port Hills, (within 5km of the CBD) have some amazing trails. There's Victoria Park and the Christchurch Adventure Park, which have the more adrenaline inducing tech trails.

Then there's the Crater Rim, which is where an XC bike would probably make the most sense, although the majority of riders do this on 130 - 160mm bikes.

There's also Bottle Lake Forest and McLean's Island. These too would cater well to XC bikes, but no real advantage to having one there unless you're strava hunting.

Further Afield 

The Canterbury Plains share a similar topography to Christchurch and there are no shortage of dirt roads in the region. These are relatively featureless though and gravel/cyclocross bikes will do the job.

Hamner Springs is a great day/overnight/weekend trip (approx 1hr45 from Chch). Plenty of trails in the forestry blocks there. Some big climbs, too! Another place an XC bike could shine. Some of the descending trails are rather technical though, so an extra 30-40mm travel may be appreciated there.

Then there are trips to the MTB mecca's like Nelson, Rotorua and Queenstown. For these, I'd say 140mm+. Majority of riders will be on 150-160mm bikes.

Multi-Day Adventures

The Alps to Ocean is a very popular cycle trail a and one I regret not doing when living on the South Island. It's basically a gravel path running from Mt Cook to Oamaru. Perfect for XC bike.

Paparoa track is one of the newest Great Walks, within half a days drive form Chch. This Great Walk is bike friendly and with an estimated 2day trip (one way). They do however grade it a "4: Advanced". That'll be conservative, but when I was camping in the region, all the rioders I saw completing it were on Trail/Enduro type bikes.

Summary 

In conclusion you can ride whatever you want to ride wherever. That's the beauty of it! It's about what you enjoy and what you want to get out of it. However, there are some realities, such as:

• General level of trail technicality is above that of SA
• Market for used XC bikes here is WAY smaller than SA, so if you do decide to sell, you'll have better luck before you leave.
• NZ seems less event focused (or maybe I'm just not aware). But things like Nissan trail Seekers aren't a thing (or big thing) so people ride mostly for fun and ride fun bikes.
• Your daughter has some good insight there... do you really want to ride a bike that's different from the other kids? ???? (there's a reason the majority ride trail bikes)

But hey, definitely take my ramblings with a pinch of salt. I did Sani2C on a 160mm enduro bike with flat pedals, so I'm not always the smartest ????

[davetapson]

And we haven't even mentioned the elephant in the room for this discussion... eBikes...

 

[IceCreamMan]

On 8/5/2021 at 7:58 AM, davetapson said:

They did a lot of processing in Beijing. My parents visa got cocked up there and then they (INZ Beijing) just disappeared, citing some virus.   Haven't heard anything since.

But for a week my parents would still be riding out covid here rather then there. I'll tell you which they'd prefer.

Applied for Permanent Residence on 7 July, heard nothing so far.

A couple of pics from Countdown half an hour ago, just to give you Saffas a heart attack...

 

 

Those prices are eye watering even for here in the UK. 

 

Veggies and fruit really well priced here as is most food really.... only red meat and lamb is expensive relative to ZA but i daresay its better quality for hte most part. And yes, i appreciate that may be controversial. 

[Slowbee]

13 hours ago, davetapson said:

And we haven't even mentioned the elephant in the room for this discussion... eBikes...

 

Apparently e bikes are a big deal in NZ.