New Zealand - The Good, The Bad and The Ugly.

[davetapson]

The bridge is contentious.

I like the idea of the bridge, I think it will lift the status (for the want of a better word - gravitas?) of the city - plus connecting up with the pink track going into the city would be awesome.  Depends how accessible they make the North Shore side.  Also how much they make it tourist (i.e. Instagram) friendly - although the no of Instagrammers will be inversely affect the biking friendliness of the bridge.

As for the price - cough! 

For the price it seems a waste not to be using that capitalisation to improve the bridge, but I suppose that would only be to make it six lane, and that would be pointless as there is nowhere either side for those 6 lanes to join up to.

Me, I say do it, but it does leave a slightly sick feeling.  Some things are just worth doing.  I can see people flying to NZ just to use it (in the same way people go to Sydney effectively for the bridge.)

As for the 'but Buttfk, Southland, needs a bridge on the Z99 what about them you callous bastards' I figure Aucklanders have been paying for rural infrastructure ever since there was a bigger population / industry paying tax there than compared to rural tax payers, and they do it uncomplainingly  (as they should.)

As for the incentive/levy - sure, incentivize the purchase of electric vehicles (although, if they're so great, why do they need incentivization?) but don't penalise the use of the other.  This is not to say I don't like ev's, I think they're great, and if I could buy one for $4k like I can a Suzuki Swift, I would.  But they don't work for everyone - tow a trailer/boat/horse box?  Carry a ton while towing a ton - you can do that with $20k and tank of diesel, not so much EV, even with Tesla trucks and alternatives.  The time will come, but it's not now, incentive or not.
 

[davetapson]

Oh, and coming up to applying for Permanent Residence in a couple of days - can still remember nervously PM'ing Wayne asking how he did it.  Time flies, I think Covid helped by taking a year out of our lives. (Although I did build a boat.. ???? )

Three years to the black passport..?

[patches]

17 hours ago, eibmoZ said:

Not sure how i feel about the 700 price tag…but me wanting to commute into town i love the idea of the bridge. 
Cant they just lay down a floating bridge like juma used to do ( joke)

 

The EV thing  i feel is a sham. What are all SMEs going to do, all tradie vans and ute’s . The way I understand they will be taxed extra as there is no option for them. The same for farmers, companies with trucks etc.

also don't see any electric motor bikes on Labours list( would love to see some) 

 

The Bridge

As a cyclist (albeit a lazy one) that lives on the Shore, I think the cost outweighs the benefits. I reckon the bridge will be a novelty which fades after a few months.

The layout and logistics of the Shore will likely result in this mainly serving people from Northcote and Takapuna, with those living further north will still have to wind their way to the bridge.

Add to the fact that the current bridge is long-in-the-tooth, due for upgrades, but unable to accommodate them, makes the $700M+ spend on a pedestrian/cyclist bridge seem like a misdirection of resource.

In my uneducated opinion, focus should be on a more suitable harbour crossing (bridge or tunnel) for vehicles. Perhaps one which takes commercial vehicles and public transport off the current bridge (not dissimilar to the north shore's bus lanes) then one of the current bridge's clip-ons could be repurposed for cyclists & pedestrians. The current bridge would also last a few more years than planned due to the reduced load.

But yeah, that's just my thought on it .

EV's

Whilst I do believe PHEV's and EV's are the way we should be moving, and current vehicle prices and capability make them prohibitively expensive or unsuitable to most, I welcome the idea of a rebate to assist those wanting to make the move.

But as many have stated, it ends up being trades, farmers and the like (who are dependent on vans, trucks and utility vehicles) who end up subsidising little city runarounds for the middle-to-upper class. That is the part I think was a little short sighted.

[davetapson]

2 hours ago, patches said:

As a cyclist (albeit a lazy one) that lives on the Shore, I think the cost outweighs the benefits. I reckon the bridge will be a novelty which fades after a few months.

Yeah, this is the fear.  

But what if the opposite happens - now that it is actually possible to cycle to the city, people actually will?  I don't work there, so it's moot for me, but the one guy I do know who works in the city, cycles now and then, even tho it is difficult.  I suspect he'd cycle given the chance.

There are some things that are tickets to the game - without, no game, with, game.  We just don't know what the value of the game is, and the price of the ticket is high.

I agree that other forms of access would be preferable, e.g. tunnel. But if bridge costs $700M, what does tunnel cost?

I have a suspicion they did all these sums, decided they couldn't afford anything but the cycle bridge and decided to just go with that.

"Hey, it'd be better to build a tunnel, and rennovate the bridge."
"Yeah! How much?"
$15B"* 
(* number sucked out of my thumb for effect - but whatever, it's gonna be big - rail tunnel is R5B, so double that,  plus, for two tunnels, and road tunnels will be bigger diameter and apparently it's diameter that costs...)
"Hmmm..., let's build the cycle bridge."

Kind of the least worst option.  Like when you buy Pinot Noir, paying too much for something you don't really want because you can't afford what you do...

It would be interesting to know what the politics of this thing is.  They've been promising for so long, but I suspect not at this cost.  Unless this is just a round about way of having the decision not to build it thrust on them by the public.

Also, who's brother-in-law owns a construction company/bought all the houses on the point...? ????

 

Edited June 16, 2021 by davetapson

[patches]

42 minutes ago, davetapson said:

Yeah, this is the fear.  

But what if the opposite happens - now that it is actually possible to cycle to the city, people actually will?  I don't work there, so it's moot for me, but the one guy I do know who works in the city, cycles now and then, even tho it is difficult.  I suspect he'd cycle given the chance.

There are some things that are tickets to the game - without, no game, with, game.  We just don't know what the value of the game is, and the price of the ticket is high.

I agree that other forms of access would be preferable, e.g. tunnel. But if bridge costs $700M, what does tunnel cost?

I have a suspicion they did all these sums, decided they couldn't afford anything but the cycle bridge and decided to just go with that.

"Hey, it'd be better to build a tunnel, and rennovate the bridge."
"Yeah! How much?"
$35B"* 
(* number sucked out of my thumb for effect - but whatever, it's gonna be big)
"Hmmm..., let's build the cycle bridge."

Kind of the least worst option.  Like when you buy Pinot Noir, paying too much for something you don't really want because you can't afford what you do...

It would be interesting to know what the politics of this thing is.  They've been promising for so long, but I suspect not at this cost.  Unless this is just a round about way of having the decision not to build it thrust on them by the public.

Also, who's brother-in-law owns a construction company/bought all the houses on the point...? ????

 

Oh yeah, bridge is definitely better than no bridge.

With reference to Sydney's bridge and the walking & cycling access there, the main differences are

• they have had cycling access since the bridge was completed (1932)
• the bridge is shorter and flatter (cycling up and over current Auckland bridge will be a workout)
• it's not the only harbour crossing, The M1 tunnel runs right next to it. Anzac bride is just a few KM away.

But yeah, whilst well planned transport infrastructure is crucial, the designated purpose of this bridge seems to be the least of the city/country's worries.

Just last week nurses were on strike because of the minuscule pay increase they were offered. Then there's the wider 3yr public sector pay freeze and the brain-drain implications from that (personal gripe of mine, haha), and let;s not forget the Pharmac underfunding and backlog. $700M which could improve the quality of life for more people in a far bigger way than said bridge.

So I guess in the wake of those, a "nice-to-have" cycling and pedestrian bridge seems like a frivolous spend.

My guess is that the majority of longer term use will be for recreation or "recreational-commuting" (cyclists who commute because they enjoy the ride, not because it's their only option. Picture Pinarellos heading to the boardroom ????).

But hey, I may be completely mistaken and this bridge may be like the field of dreams, hahaha

Edited June 16, 2021 by patches

[mazambaan]

My little secondhand contribution; In a Zoom meeting recently a colleague from SA but now in NZ for a few years; small business (built environment consulting) remarked that one thing was strange in NZ; people just paid on invoice.  In SA a letter of final demand was treated as a start to negotiating the price.

[Rocket-Boy]

2 hours ago, mazambaan said:

My little secondhand contribution; In a Zoom meeting recently a colleague from SA but now in NZ for a few years; small business (built environment consulting) remarked that one thing was strange in NZ; people just paid on invoice.  In SA a letter of final demand was treated as a start to negotiating the price.

People in SA can be pretty disgusting like that. Agree on a price until it comes time to pay it and the job is done, now they suddenly want to negotiate for a lower price after its already at 30/60 days.

[davetapson]

Speaking of EVs, just saw this comment on a local FB page where a guy had seen a Rivian (EV truck) being inspected at the airport:

 

Everyone is bagging the **** out of these but they actually blitz any ute on the market... 5 tonne towing capacity (would be more if they were heavier), 0-100 in under 5 seconds, heaps of cargo space, the biggest batteries can get over 700km per charge... and at $75,000 USD ($105,000) NZD pretty similar to a land cruiser which plenty of farmers run...and one of the coolest specs is the Tank-turn
Before anyone has a whinge too, I’m an agricultural contractor and ex-farmer, I think we just needed someone to be the first to get one in NZ so hats off to whoever has bought this one

 

 

So, I'm already jealous....

[arabsandals]

14 hours ago, davetapson said:

Speaking of EVs, just saw this comment on a local FB page where a guy had seen a Rivian (EV truck) being inspected at the airport:

 

Everyone is bagging the **** out of these but they actually blitz any ute on the market... 5 tonne towing capacity (would be more if they were heavier), 0-100 in under 5 seconds, heaps of cargo space, the biggest batteries can get over 700km per charge... and at $75,000 USD ($105,000) NZD pretty similar to a land cruiser which plenty of farmers run...and one of the coolest specs is the Tank-turn
Before anyone has a whinge too, I’m an agricultural contractor and ex-farmer, I think we just needed someone to be the first to get one in NZ so hats off to whoever has bought this one

 

 

So, I'm already jealous....

They're supposedly there for winter testing on the Southern Hemisphere Proving Grounds. Big step. Don't think the F150 has the same real world accreditation that the Rivian does.

[davetapson]

On 6/17/2021 at 11:12 AM, arabsandals said:

Southern Hemisphere Proving Grounds

Pretty amazing... https://www.shpg.co.nz/

[Beer4Recovery]

Question. How’s the mtb scene in/around Auckland? Any good trails to recommend? Compared to Tygerberg trails in Cape Town and other like Banhoek / Jonkershoek, Helderberg, Stellenbosch Trails?  any similar type spots? I have heard Rotorua is also a hub for good trails. 

[Wayne Potgieter]

On 6/16/2021 at 8:42 PM, davetapson said:

Speaking of EVs, just saw this comment on a local FB page where a guy had seen a Rivian (EV truck) being inspected at the airport:

 

Everyone is bagging the **** out of these but they actually blitz any ute on the market... 5 tonne towing capacity (would be more if they were heavier), 0-100 in under 5 seconds, heaps of cargo space, the biggest batteries can get over 700km per charge... and at $75,000 USD ($105,000) NZD pretty similar to a land cruiser which plenty of farmers run...and one of the coolest specs is the Tank-turn
Before anyone has a whinge too, I’m an agricultural contractor and ex-farmer, I think we just needed someone to be the first to get one in NZ so hats off to whoever has bought this one

 

 

So, I'm already jealous....

 

On 6/17/2021 at 11:12 AM, arabsandals said:

They're supposedly there for winter testing on the Southern Hemisphere Proving Grounds. Big step. Don't think the F150 has the same real world accreditation that the Rivian does.

I was blown away at these vehicles when watching the "Long Way Up" tv show with Ewan McGregor and Charlie Boorman. They rode electric Herley's supported with Rivians from southern tip of argentina to LA.

 

 

[patches]

10 hours ago, Beer4Recovery said:

Question. How’s the mtb scene in/around Auckland? Any good trails to recommend? Compared to Tygerberg trails in Cape Town and other like Banhoek / Jonkershoek, Helderberg, Stellenbosch Trails?  any similar type spots? I have heard Rotorua is also a hub for good trails. 

Prtty big MTB scene in/around Auckland. Mostly trail & enduro orientated. Woodhill (bike park) and Riverheard Forest (free) are the 2 most popular places to ride.

Riverhead gets too muddy during winter so many riders divert to Woodhill.

Have a look on the Trailforks app. It should give a good indication of what is available in the area.

Hope that helps!

[hayleyearth]

On 6/20/2021 at 11:59 PM, Beer4Recovery said:

Question. How’s the mtb scene in/around Auckland? Any good trails to recommend? Compared to Tygerberg trails in Cape Town and other like Banhoek / Jonkershoek, Helderberg, Stellenbosch Trails?  any similar type spots? I have heard Rotorua is also a hub for good trails. 

There isn't really trails on a "mountain" here in Auckland, it is more on hills, but still fun!

As Patches mentioned, Woodhill and Riverhead is probably the most popular up north, then down south you get Maraetai trails, Four40 and Totara Park (more family riding I'd say). 

 

[patches]

One of my work mates is BIG into mountain biking. He typicaly does Riverhead Four40 and Rotarua all summer, then in winter (when it's muddy), he'll switch to Woodhill and Muriwai, which I believe is not bad, and free.

[Beer4Recovery]

Thanks for replies, guess we’re pretty spoiled here in Cape Town with over a 170km worth of trails (Tygerberg mtb trail network) on our doorstep, some (Jonkershoek/ Banhoek) within big mountains. 
 

Reason for asking is we might move to Auckland soon, just getting a feel for some of the “sacrifices” we would have to make in terms of our mountain biking and access to mountain trail riding.