Over Training - Sore Quadriceps

[101%]

Hey Jason !! I no how you must be feeling , and recovery time is the best , at the moment I'm feeling the same way you do , but I feel taking time off the bike right now is'nt a good thing....Theres about 7 weeks of big races comming up so time off the bike for me is'nt a good option . If you anything like me when it comes to training ...I almost always ride big gears which after awhile starts to catch up on me , so my advice to you would be to join Michelle on a couple of recovery rides ..try spin a small gear which I find helps to losen the muscles, and after 94.7 you can take a couple of weeks off the bike for a well deserved rest.

[bruce]

Bikemax: very interesting article and definitely food for thought.  What I don't understand about this approach is the balance between acute adaptions, and chronic adaptions.

I'm not even close to a physiologist, but in my limited understanding adaptions of tendons take a lot longer than adaptions of muscles.  Continually pushing the envelope surely puts you at risk of injury in terms of adaptions that take longer - such as the strengthening of tendons.

The article you post above is talking about athletes that are in a highly trained state already, so most of the chronic adaptions have taken place over the years leading up to where they are.

Would you say this approach applies to the average "weekend warrior"?

Certainly the advice I have been given (from my brother for example) is that because I am relatively new to the sport there is a lot of conditioning, muscle memory, building of tendons etc that need to take place.  And that my capacity for training stress is still building.  I have been told that I will take about 3 years to reach my potential in terms of physiologicial limits and available training time.

[bruce]

Hey Jason !! I no how you must be feeling ' date=' and recovery time is the best , at the moment I'm feeling the same way you do , but I feel taking time off the bike right now is'nt a good thing....Theres about 7 weeks of big races comming up so time off the bike for me is'nt a good option . If you anything like me when it comes to training ...I almost always ride big gears which after awhile starts to catch up on me , so my advice to you would be to join Michelle on a couple of recovery rides ..try spin a small gear which I find helps to losen the muscles, and after 94.7 you can take a couple of weeks off the bike for a well deserved rest.[/quote']

 

That would explain some of your early morning log-ons to the hub, when you should be out on your bike

[Jason]

Hey Jason !! I no how you must be feeling ' date=' and recovery time is the best , at the moment I'm feeling the same way you do , but I feel taking time off the bike right now is'nt a good thing....Theres about 7 weeks of big races comming up so time off the bike for me is'nt a good option . If you anything like me when it comes to training ...I almost always ride big gears which after awhile starts to catch up on me , so my advice to you would be to join Michelle on a couple of recovery rides ..try spin a small gear which I find helps to losen the muscles, and after 94.7 you can take a couple of weeks off the bike for a well deserved rest.[/quote']Hey thanks 101%, time off for me...Ugh I hate it. I can't sit still at home for a minute although last night I was out. Maybe I should do some garden work this week? .

ehehe...

I will rest this week and start slowly on Monday. I'm planing on doing the Race for Victory, Telkom, maybe OFM, Bakwena and then the 94.7. The next 2 weeks I'm free... so this week I'm off and then next week I'll start slowly with some serious LSD over the weekend. I asked Levi and epoh if they wanna join me on the LSD's (From Brooklyn to Dis-Chem route and back. Anyone who's keen to join is welcome). Riding with mates is a bonus, makes the 180km+ seem short. From there I'll see what's up. For now I'm gonna fuel myself, strecth and see how I feel next week is.

Maybe I should get the rest of that cow you were dragging around for protein?

[101%]

Nothing beats LSD's with some mates !!!!!! I'm sure a week off the bike will make you hungry again.............................for the bike that is.....not the rest of that steak!

[bruce]

A week off the bike - eish Michelle, I reckon you should get out of town for a while

[fatcyclist]

Does Michelle own a skinsuit?

[WorcesterWheelers]

Wish I had a problem of over training!

 

got a week left with my hand in a cast, and just as I was getting back onto the indoor trainer to try and keep some sort of form, first I hurt my lower back and then spent the most of my long weekend sick as a dog with the flu!

 

so next week when the cast comes off, its back to square 1 for me!

 

guess the 3day vets tour is going to be one tough training weekend....

[Jason]

Does Michelle own a skinsuit?

No...but you get that body chocolate and then you can paint your own one on. Hey why don't we have a forum called Wife Swap like that TV show or something . Just kidding . Jason runs to the DOG box...woof woof!!

[BikeMax]

Bikemax: very interesting article and definitely food for thought.  What I don't understand about this approach is the balance between acute adaptions' date=' and chronic adaptions.

I'm not even close to a physiologist, but in my limited understanding adaptions of tendons take a lot longer than adaptions of muscles.  Continually pushing the envelope surely puts you at risk of injury in terms of adaptions that take longer - such as the strengthening of tendons.

The article you post above is talking about athletes that are in a highly trained state already, so most of the chronic adaptions have taken place over the years leading up to where they are.

Would you say this approach applies to the average "weekend warrior"?

Certainly the advice I have been given (from my brother for example) is that because I am relatively new to the sport there is a lot of conditioning, muscle memory, building of tendons etc that need to take place.  And that my capacity for training stress is still building.  I have been told that I will take about 3 years to reach my potential in terms of physiologicial limits and available training time.

[/quote']

 

Bruce

 

What you say makes sense, there is a chronic build up of strength in structural terms.

 

I am not sure however that this requires the sort of planned 1 week in 4 rest that you have mentioned.

 

The type of training in volume terms, that you are doing should not overload the structural side of things (tendons etc) sufficiently to be of any concern (under normal circumstances)

 

Capacity for training stress will be bulding BUT by only completing sessions that you are physically able to do, you are automatically taking this issue into account. If you are too fatigued to complete a certain session for any reason - then you will rest. Your ability to train harder and rest less will build up gradually over time and you will adapt your training accordingly.

 

I have seen guys make their best efforts in power terms, during what might have otherwise been a rest week if planned in advance. They felt tired but were able to put out great numbers.

 

You are an individual and your body will tell you when it needs rest by performing poorly relative to what you can normally achieve.

[bruce]

I agree, the 1 in 4 rule is fairly arbitrarily chosen, and is probably more due to historical precautions because in the past we actually had no accurate way of quantifying the stress that training was placing on the system - given the variabilityof heartrate responses etc.

 

As at this stage I have had good results, but that does not mean I couldn't have had better results, who knows??  One thing for sure though, is that if you are prepared to continue educating yourself, and accepting that what you are currently doing is not necessairly the best way you can do things, the continued progress is almost a certainty.

 

Being an engineer I know that to accurately control a system (in this case the physiological response to training), you need a good feedback loop in terms of stimulus and response.  In the absence of a properly measurable variable, empirical observations become the lore.  The problem with empirical observations is that they onlyaply to the person being observed and become dangerous when applied at macro levels.

 

So, taking this information on board I'll reassess my training strategy.  The only complexity that I need to figure out is that fact that cycling (and road racing in particular) requires many different zones to be trained, from 10 to 15 second maximal efforts, to 5 minute VO2max efforts, to long duration steady state efforts.  This adds more dimensions to the creation of a training plan -but then I'm sure you've given some thought to that as well

[BikeMax]

I agree' date=' the 1 in 4 rule is fairly arbitrarily chosen, and is probably more due to historical precautions because in the past we actually had no accurate way of quantifying the stress that training was placing on the system - given the variabilityof heartrate responses etc.

 

As at this stage I have had good results, but that does not mean I couldn't have had better results, who knows??  One thing for sure though, is that if you are prepared to continue educating yourself, and accepting that what you are currently doing is not necessairly the best way you can do things, the continued progress is almost a certainty.

 

Being an engineer I know that to accurately control a system (in this case the physiological response to training), you need a good feedback loop in terms of stimulus and response.  In the absence of a properly measurable variable, empirical observations become the lore.  The problem with empirical observations is that they onlyaply to the person being observed and become dangerous when applied at macro levels.

 

So, taking this information on board I'll reassess my training strategy.  The only complexity that I need to figure out is that fact that cycling (and road racing in particular) requires many different zones to be trained, from 10 to 15 second maximal efforts, to 5 minute VO2max efforts, to long duration steady state efforts.  This adds more dimensions to the creation of a training plan -but then I'm sure you've given some thought to that as well

[/quote']

 

Well, you are doing bloody well and getting better all the time, but yes, we can all improve the way we train and our performance.

 

A lot of this stuff is at the cutting adge and as such may yet be (and should be) questioned - but right now it is considered the way to go.

 

I believe training to become an all round performer is about measuring and objectively reviewing performance data with a view to identifying where the weaknesses lie - and then training them specifically.

 

The more data you put on that Zipp, the better and fuller picture you will get.

 

(But get that 60 min TT done soon )

[bruce]

(But get that 60 min TT done soon )

 

Was hoping you had forgotten about that.

[Windbreaker]

(But get that 60 min TT done soon )

 

Was hoping you had forgotten about that.

 

Hey, we are all waiting with baited breath for your numbers!

[Dr. Seuss]

 

... and feel really poked through out the day.

 

 

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you don?t mention of you are the poker or pokee ? previous postings would suggest that you are the pokee & then no wonder that you feel poked all day.

 

seriously -

 

i took Friday, Sat, Sun and Monday off with NO riding - of course I felt guilty going away without the bike (Mrs. Suess was threatening with divorce in the case of the bike joining us).

 

slept over 10 hours per night with a 2-3 hour nap every day.  ate heaps of everything i should not eat - kilos of ribs,  pizzas with extra everything,  huge breakfasts,  tubs of the woollies jelly babies & even consumed bountiful quantities of "real men" beer.

 

got back on the bike on tuesday morning and felt GREAT - no sore legs! - even managed to stay with the bunch & only got dropped at the second traffic light instead of the first!

 

so - plenty of rest (sleep) and a <?:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />LOT of carbs & protien in real food format.

 

also found that a couple of days of CELLFOOD (http://nuscience.com/cellfood.htm) work wonders for sore legs & general tiredness.

 

[Guest Michelle]

 

Does Michelle own a skinsuit?

No... but I have tried Jason's Discovery skinsuit on...