Armed Cyclist

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[Falco]

Are there any people out there - on the forum - or even anecdotal - that managed to defend against a hijacking or assault by drawing a weapon they were carrying for that purpose?

 

Would be interesting to hear of them and from them.

 

I know of one - names and places will not be mentioned because he didn't report the shooting - this was a single rider vs one attacker. He was unharmed, the condition of the attacker is not known.

[Barry Stuart]

SWAT - storage, water, (fire)ARMS, tools...I'm sure specialized is already busy with this

Dammit, that's so much better than my Re-DIE-drator name.

[Letum911]

After reading most of this thread and posting quite a bit in the other thread my 2 cents is:

 

1) I have never been in a bike jacking, however I have been in an attempted car jacking (this was before I started carrying).

2) I do carry on a close to daily basis my G21, not the smallest pistol by the one I am comfortable with.

3) I shoot probably twice per week and train both hands as well as drawing from concealment.

 

The short and the long is that an attack happens extremely quick, the only reason I managed to escape the attempted jacking was that as the gentleman put his knife to my back instinct kicked it and I managed to jump forward and sideways to challenge him, and he was not up for a fight. Granted he was alone...

 

Whether having my pistol there would make a difference, I doubt it. But should he have decided to continue with the attack I would have preferred being armed than being helpless.

 

In the end having a FA with is an enormous responsibility, not just regarding the loss thereof but the possible danger to yourself and the public. If you are not ready, comfortable or trained for this DO NOT carry or put yourself in a position where you are not comfortable to carry. I do carry as much and often as possible and pray that I will never be placed in the position where I will have to defend my life, but should the time come that it be needed I would rather have my FA with me and face the consequences thereof than need it and not have it there. Once again it should however be understood that each situation must be evaluated before any actions, if it is clear that they want the bike, wave at it with a smile, if they want your life it's a different story.

 

*Attempted car jacking was as I approached my vehicle and not while being inside.

[BarHugger]

I pack this......works a charm when the poo hits the fan......

 

 

http://g02.s.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1J9AwJpXXXXXrXVXXq6xXFXXXd/Novelty-candy-toys-shaped-gummy-gum-sweets.jpg_200x200.jpg

[Piernas Flacas]

I've seen this question asked so many times before.....All with the same bias, focusing on the practicality/technicality of carrying/concealing. That is the easy part.

 

Here's my weigh in:

 

In my teens and early 20's I was trained the British Army on a variety of small and medium calibre weapons, basically from Browning Hi Power 9mm, through Stirling and FN (ZA R1), on to various LMG and GPMG, amongst others..

 

Any idiot can be taught to use/utilize these weapons in effective fashion.

Every Military around the world has proven that.

 

The deeper issue, and the harder or longer term training challenge is the ease and speed with which these weapons are deployed to kill.

 

If you have not trained to the extent where it is natural and instinctive to pull, point and then kill your threat then none of the hardware matters one little bit.

 

If you are carrying to make yourself feel safe, that's a falsehood and a liability.

 

If you are carrying to threaten, even worse. That escalates any situation into life or death.

And if you haven't shot first then you are at the disadvantage.

 

I believe I was about as well trained as one could be. Thankfully it was never tested.

That being said, there is no way I would take a weapon out on a ride with me, because I don't want to train myself into that mindset again where I am alert and ready to kill as an almost instinctive response to a threat.

 

There are other questions to consider:

 

The law does not allow you to blast away just because someone is trying to steal your bike. Only if your life is legitimately threatened. (Ask Oscar).

 

I know it's all very Gung Ho to fantasize about wasting somebody who's trying to steal from you.

How would you actually feel about it?

I had soldiers around me who had killed in legitimate military conflicts who had trouble sleeping. Some didn't seem to mind at all, of course but I found that they mostly had other issues. Again some were 100% fine with it all, but they were a bit of a mystery.

 

Have you actually experienced, close up, the real effects of a shooting?

 

Maybe you have weighed up all of the above and feel happy about carrying, and are confident in your technical abilities , the speed of your decision making and the strength of your psyche.

In that case, good luck and safe riding.

 

If you haven't, then please think very carefully about what it really entails.

 

Sorry for the length of that, started out meaning for it to be a quick caution..

 

The most sensible advice I've read on any public forum. I totally agree.

 

To the OP: don't do it. It's calling for trouble.

['Dale]

I've seen this question asked so many times before.....All with the same bias, focusing on the practicality/technicality of carrying/concealing. That is the easy part.

 

Here's my weigh in:

 

In my teens and early 20's I was trained the British Army on a variety of small and medium calibre weapons, basically from Browning Hi Power 9mm, through Stirling and FN (ZA R1), on to various LMG and GPMG, amongst others..

 

Any idiot can be taught to use/utilize these weapons in effective fashion.

Every Military around the world has proven that.

 

The deeper issue, and the harder or longer term training challenge is the ease and speed with which these weapons are deployed to kill.

 

If you have not trained to the extent where it is natural and instinctive to pull, point and then kill your threat then none of the hardware matters one little bit.

 

If you are carrying to make yourself feel safe, that's a falsehood and a liability.

 

If you are carrying to threaten, even worse. That escalates any situation into life or death.

And if you haven't shot first then you are at the disadvantage.

 

I believe I was about as well trained as one could be. Thankfully it was never tested.

That being said, there is no way I would take a weapon out on a ride with me, because I don't want to train myself into that mindset again where I am alert and ready to kill as an almost instinctive response to a threat.

 

There are other questions to consider:

 

The law does not allow you to blast away just because someone is trying to steal your bike. Only if your life is legitimately threatened. (Ask Oscar).

 

I know it's all very Gung Ho to fantasize about wasting somebody who's trying to steal from you.

How would you actually feel about it?

I had soldiers around me who had killed in legitimate military conflicts who had trouble sleeping. Some didn't seem to mind at all, of course but I found that they mostly had other issues. Again some were 100% fine with it all, but they were a bit of a mystery.

 

Have you actually experienced, close up, the real effects of a shooting?

 

Maybe you have weighed up all of the above and feel happy about carrying, and are confident in your technical abilities , the speed of your decision making and the strength of your psyche.

In that case, good luck and safe riding.

 

If you haven't, then please think very carefully about what it really entails.

 

Sorry for the length of that, started out meaning for it to be a quick caution..

 

Superb contribution, Blackheart

Nicely done

[gummibear]

http://mini.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/cape-town-cyclist-in-icu-after-attack-1972459

[Gonduir]

http://mini.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/cape-town-cyclist-in-icu-after-attack-1972459

 

That's hectic! We had our club race that Saturday before, starting at the school in Fisantekraal. 

[FrankG]

I got to know a bodyguard for the CEO of one of SA's main telecoms companies and after asking him for advice on carrying a knife on my rides his advice was don't.

 

This guy has worked across the world and trains several times a week in hand to hand combat including using knives where they actively try to attack each other. Even with years of experience and confidence their odds are 50/50 in a knife fight with someone who is used to stabbing others. Apparently the chaps who are going to attack you practice stabbing frozen sheep carcasses and know what it feels like to stick a blade through skin. Us sane folk will most likely not grip the knife tight enough, not stab hard enough, and end up sliding our hands over the blade as a result.

 

You may feel safer carrying a knife, but I believe it is a false sense of security. Our experience of violence is generally limited to highlighting bad grammar on forums.

[BarHugger]

I got to know a bodyguard for the CEO of one of SA's main telecoms companies and after asking him for advice on carrying a knife on my rides his advice was don't.

 

This guy has worked across the world and trains several times a week in hand to hand combat including using knives where they actively try to attack each other. Even with years of experience and confidence their odds are 50/50 in a knife fight with someone who is used to stabbing others. Apparently the chaps who are going to attack you practice stabbing frozen sheep carcasses and know what it feels like to stick a blade through skin. Us sane folk will most likely not grip the knife tight enough, not stab hard enough, and end up sliding our hands over the blade as a result.

 

You may feel safer carrying a knife, but I believe it is a false sense of security. Our experience of violence is generally limited to highlighting bad grammar on forums.

Anyone who has been for a course or training for knife handling would have done the same.....but yes most people are not capable enough.....

[Letum911]

I got to know a bodyguard for the CEO of one of SA's main telecoms companies and after asking him for advice on carrying a knife on my rides his advice was don't.

 

This guy has worked across the world and trains several times a week in hand to hand combat including using knives where they actively try to attack each other. Even with years of experience and confidence their odds are 50/50 in a knife fight with someone who is used to stabbing others. Apparently the chaps who are going to attack you practice stabbing frozen sheep carcasses and know what it feels like to stick a blade through skin. Us sane folk will most likely not grip the knife tight enough, not stab hard enough, and end up sliding our hands over the blade as a result.

 

You may feel safer carrying a knife, but I believe it is a false sense of security. Our experience of violence is generally limited to highlighting bad grammar on forums.

 

This does however come back to the caveat regarding proper and enough training. Also the theory around stabbing a sheep does have it's holes: Based on that theory by hunting (shooting an animal) will prepare you for shooting a human. 

[DIPSLICK]

I got to know a bodyguard for the CEO of one of SA's main telecoms companies and after asking him for advice on carrying a knife on my rides his advice was don't.

 

This guy has worked across the world and trains several times a week in hand to hand combat including using knives where they actively try to attack each other. Even with years of experience and confidence their odds are 50/50 in a knife fight with someone who is used to stabbing others. Apparently the chaps who are going to attack you practice stabbing frozen sheep carcasses and know what it feels like to stick a blade through skin. Us sane folk will most likely not grip the knife tight enough, not stab hard enough, and end up sliding our hands over the blade as a result.

 

You may feel safer carrying a knife, but I believe it is a false sense of security. Our experience of violence is generally limited to highlighting bad grammar on forums.

comforting thought

[gummibear]

Same goes for guns.... Majority of people that carry will never be able to shoot someone.

 

I have never heard of people stabbing sheep to practice knife skills.Maybe slaughtering cows and sheep at traditional events count.

 

 

I'd rather have something and not need it....than not have anything and need it  

[FrankG]

Same goes for I have never heard of people stabbing sheep to practice knife skills.

 

Cape Flats gangs apparently