Power issue?

[Blue Monster]

Your PB is then very much in line then

 

Please dont take this as gospel, its merely a suggestion.

 

Monday - 4 - 6 x Hill repeats at 5mins each (warm up and cool down) This will burn both legs and lungs, so expect that.

Tuesday - 60mins easy

Wed - 4 - 6 x low cadence (65 rpm) up the hill, should take about 6 - 6:30 mins on that hill. This will burn your legs.

Thursday - 4 - 6 x Hill repeats at 5mins each (warm up and cool down)

Friday - easy coffee ride

Sat - Long ride 4-5 hours. (easy, you should be able to hold a conversation the whole time)

Sunday off, completely!!

 

I would do that for 4 weeks, then take a week easy and then see how you do in a big group ride again, then you can assess if it worked, or if you need another approach.

 

As for the group, increased power will help on hills, flats and downhills. When it comes to flats and downhills, also keep in mind to follow the wheel in front of you more diligently than you would on a climb, aerodynamics plays a bigger and bigger role the faster you get, especially if you are smaller than those around you.

Great training plan.

Depending on your age, you need to have adequate recovery.  In your 20's you can manage 5 days a week quite hard and only need the odd day off to recover.

In your 40's you will need the occasional 2 days off in a row(don't ask how I know).

What has worked for me was base training in winter and after 947.  Then take 2 to 4 weeks at very low cadence and high power.  I use Suikerbosrand for this.  Most hill are at 45 to 65 cadence, and are long.

Then train as above.

I have seen massive benefits from this since 947.  This weekends group ride of 106km I received 49 awards on strava, most of which were on the hills.

I have never been a climber, even though I have the build for it.  I was able to pull from the group up the hills in some instances.

Keep up the training, and remember you need a rest week every 3 to 4 weeks of hard training for the adaptations to occur.

[rudi-h]

I've been training pretty consistently since August. I've done just less than 5000km since middle of September when I got my new bike. I've only just started doing interval training, most of the above has been base. I'm doing hill repeats, 1,2km hill, 5% gradient, I've got up to 8 repeats, tmorrow I plan on doing 10. Tuesday and Thursday mornings. Strava has my last 4 weeks at an average of 324km and 13h18m per week.

 

Yesterday I was riding with a fast group. We averaged 30km/h for 115km but they had to stop for me and one rider behind me. So they would have been faster, I usually only average 24km/h odd in the Cradle on my own. 

 

So I got left behind on a long slightly downhill section. I didn't see what speed we were going but my cadence was at about 80, I wasn't in my heaviest gear and I just couldn't make myself go faster and stay with the group. I also get dropped on the longer uphill drags. Short steep stuff, I'm usually ok, as long as it's not too long. 

 

What is my weakness? Is it power? I did an FTP around September it was 135w and my power to weight is 2,37 w/kg 

 

Any ideas on where and how I can improve. 

 

something doesn't sound right, unless if you are way older than me or haven't been cycling for too long.  With that amount of riding you should be able to do way more than 24km/hr average in the cradle.

 

from a distance it seems that you are not resting enough and have some over-training symptoms.

 

in comparison (not to be funny or boast my own ego, just to benchmark), I am 33 years old and ride about ~30% of what you do in terms of hours and ~40% in km.  I do two hard 1-hour sessions (intervals or similar) mid-week and typically one 70km - 90km ride on weekends.  I manage between 28-30km/hr average out in the cradle alone over 3 hrs and on flatter routes I'm consistently over 30km/hr.

 

so in terms of improving, drop your training volume and work on intensity.  rest more and do more of those intervals.  perhaps find another hill too, it is good to vary the intensity and duration of intervals every now and then.  i typically do 3 minutes for short hard intervals and 8 minutes for steady medium paced intervals.

[NordicElf]

 

Apologies for any offence with the weight question.

 

As other have said, I thinks you have a good base to work off now so I would reduce the time and distance and increase the intensity. Work on your 20min - 20sec intervals.

 

If you could please try answer these:

• How much climbing was on that 115km ride?
• What was your Avg HR before your Garmin played up?
• What was your HR when you were getting dropped?
• What were the weather conditions, wind, temp etc.?
• How much group riding do you do and how much time did you spend on the front?
• Did you do your test fatigued?
• Your FTP does seem quite low for the amount of training you doing, (Would you class yourself as a slight light weight rider)

 

 

To answer your questions:

Only 757m climbing over 115kms

Not sure what my hr average was but it felt like it was upper 80% -90% every time I looked

Not sure what my heart rate was on the flat sections when I got dropped, only caught a glimpse of cadence. On the hills I was breathing pretty hard - it always feel like they start the hills too fast, if they started them slower, I'm sure I could stay .

Light wind, low temp, a bit drizzly - perfect conditions

Been doing 1 - 2 rides a month in a well organised group. don't usually ride on the front if I can help it. On sunday they put me and the other straggler on the front towards the end to set the pace, not make us work hah!

I think I was a bit fatigued when I did my FTP - it was also end of September, many km's have passed since then. 

What's interesting is that I have put on 1 kg but gone from 31% bf to 26% - I'm assuming I've put some muscle on and should have a higher w/kg ratio now?

[NordicElf]

something doesn't sound right, unless if you are way older than me or haven't been cycling for too long.  With that amount of riding you should be able to do way more than 24km/hr average in the cradle.

 

from a distance it seems that you are not resting enough and have some over-training symptoms.

 

in comparison (not to be funny or boast my own ego, just to benchmark), I am 33 years old and ride about ~30% of what you do in terms of hours and ~40% in km.  I do two hard 1-hour sessions (intervals or similar) mid-week and typically one 70km - 90km ride on weekends.  I manage between 28-30km/hr average out in the cradle alone over 3 hrs and on flatter routes I'm consistently over 30km/hr.

 

so in terms of improving, drop your training volume and work on intensity.  rest more and do more of those intervals.  perhaps find another hill too, it is good to vary the intensity and duration of intervals every now and then.  i typically do 3 minutes for short hard intervals and 8 minutes for steady medium paced intervals.

 

I'm 41, I've taken a 12 year break from cycling and i'm cycling way better now than when I was in my twenties. I have improved my average from about 19km/h in July in the Cradle, so I am pleased about that. I think you and most of the people here are right, I haven't given myself enough rest. I just hope I haven't gone backwards.

 

But I'm not sure it's wise to compare myself to others. I need to focus on reaching my own potential, which might be nowhere near yours and that's ok. If only training volume/intensity/programmes were linear! 

[Spoke101]

Thanks for the info.

I can relate in some ways I'm 188cm but 58-60kg at race weight and loose weight if I don’t ride, this is not by choice I eat 5 meals a day and eat anything I can find.

My ftp is around 290w which is a lot higher that yours but I race Elite and have the same issue of getting dropped on the down's and flat if I'm not paying attention and the bunch surges or there is an attack. This is due to lack of plain raw power.

Climbs I am fine don't like anything under 5% as it's to much of a power climb, really like the +10% long as in 10km stuff. I have always liked climbing and there are a lot of tricks you can learn.

 

There are some good videos out there explaining how to ride smart and prepare before the climbs. I'll see what I can find when I get home.

[NordicElf]

Thanks for the info.

I can relate in some ways I'm 188cm but 58-60kg at race weight and loose weight if I don’t ride, this is not by choice I eat 5 meals a day and eat anything I can find.

My ftp is around 290w which is a lot higher that yours but I race Elite and have the same issue of getting dropped on the down's and flat if I'm not paying attention and the bunch surges or there is an attack. This is due to lack of plain raw power.

Climbs I am fine don't like anything under 5% as it's to much of a power climb, really like the +10% long as in 10km stuff. I have always liked climbing and there are a lot of tricks you can learn.

 

There are some good videos out there explaining how to ride smart and prepare before the climbs. I'll see what I can find when I get home.

 

I lost the group at one point, a guy was pacing myself and another woman back and I glanced down because something on my bike made a noise and I looked up and there was a 3m gap! And I was firmly on his wheel when that happened! but on another occasion I just couldn't keep up, I guess it was lack of power. I've learnt from this thread that I clearly need to be more careful about following the wheel when it starts to get fast. 

 

Would really appreciate the video's on riding smarter! Thanks! 

 

I don't think we're similar in the weight category I struggle to keep my weight down... although despite carrying too much weight I'm still small in stature... so maybe that part

 

I like how hard I'm training though... I am struggling with the thought of training less... but I do want to get better.

 

Those videos on riding smarter will be much appreciated! 

[Patchelicious]

Snip*

 

I like how hard I'm training though... I am struggling with the thought of training less... but I do want to get better.

 

 

I pinkie promise that resting properly will help! It sound weird. but its very much needed.

 

Some reading material:

http://easycycling.com/recovery-is-key-to-faster-cycling/

 

http://www.cyclesportcoaching.com/Files/RestRecovery.pdf

 

http://www.adventurecorps.com/way/fivemistakes.html

 

http://www.cptips.com/ovrtrng.htm

[NordicElf]

I pinkie promise that resting properly will help! It sound weird. but its very much needed.

 

I'm going to give it a try - probably not as much as you guys would like But I know it makes sense... I think overtraining is one of those things you think will never happen to you... 

[Veebee]

I'm a novice around the world of cycling, but you should listen to what Patch is saying about the rest days. It makes a massive difference.

 

I usually ride 5 times a week, 8-10hrs if I can get it in. Last week I took an extra day off and it made it big difference to my ride on Saturday, was the best ride I had in months.

[Guest Lancesball]

Your cadence is too low. Aim for 90-100. You clearly have the base but you need to do high intensity training. Hour of proper high intensity twice a week will get you right, the hour includes warm up and warm down. Make sure you taste blood in your mouth. 

 

What are you basing the cadence on? Why must it be 90-100? 

[NordicElf]

I pinkie promise that resting properly will help! It sound weird. but its very much needed.

 

Some reading material:

http://easycycling.com/recovery-is-key-to-faster-cycling/

 

http://www.cyclesportcoaching.com/Files/RestRecovery.pdf

 

http://www.adventurecorps.com/way/fivemistakes.html

 

http://www.cptips.com/ovrtrng.htm

 

 

To be fair though I do take days off when I start to feel too tired or show any symptoms. My biggest realisation was that I'm not lazy and I love training. If I don't feel like riding, then I don't. I haven't had a niggle or any issues. I've managed to build my training so high because I've taken rest days when I needed them. But having said all of that, I do think I can add more recovery in. So I'm a little closer to the over training edge than I thought I was but I have been careful and aware of it. Still appreciate the feedback though. 

 

Edit

I'm taking a rest day today! 

[jcza]

What are you basing the cadence on? Why must it be 90-100? 

 

If you're getting dropped on a downhill section and pedalling at 80rpm then you need to increase it to keep up 

[BDF]

What are you basing the cadence on? Why must it be 90-100? 

 

 

If you're getting dropped on a downhill section and pedalling at 80rpm then you need to increase it to keep up 

 

 

 

Here is a short article on the importance of a good cadence for endurance cycling.

 

http://www.active.com/cycling/articles/cycling-cadence-101

[Spoke101]

It's quite hard to analysis your riding from the other side of a PC. I suggest maybe asking some of the stronger more experienced riders on your next group ride to critique your current riding and give you few pointers. I wouldn’t mind but am not exactly in the area.  

[NordicElf]

It's quite hard to analysis your riding from the other side of a PC. I suggest maybe asking some of the stronger more experienced riders on your next group ride to critique your current riding and give you few pointers. I wouldn’t mind but am not exactly in the area.  

 

True... their advice doesn't make sense though... it's been mostly get a standard crank, I run a compact and then 20sec intervals at high cadence... and train harder... 

 

But I think this discussion has been useful nonetheless. 

[Spoke101]

True... their advice doesn't make sense though... it's been mostly get a standard crank, I run a compact and then 20sec intervals at high cadence... and train harder... 

 

But I think this discussion has been useful nonetheless. 

 

That advise is a load of bull $h!t IMO.

 

If you running out of gears (from your earlier post this is not the case) then look at going 52-36T on your current compact crank, thes is what I've been running for the last 2 years and a lot of the Pro's are going the same way. It gives you the best of both when used in conjunction with a 11-28T cassette.

 

As for training harder, maybe harder bring down the hours and listen to your body if you wake up and you tired and your body want to stay in bed then miss that day or if you have to ride do 30km cruz and just spin the legs HR below 130bpm. By the way do you know your max HR?

 

I average about the same hours and distance as you are currently doing but with probably more climbing so you don't need to train "harder" just smater. You can race competitvly in your age cat with 10hrs a week on the bike if you train smart.