Help interpreting PMC graph

[NotSoBigBen]

Are you going to Tankwa or Sabie?

 

or the TdF perhaps 

[V12man]

Those are scary numbers! 

My threshold is based on an ftp test I did in September. I'd like to think that with over 5000km's since then, that my fitness would have improved, so I'm probably due for another test. Would I tweak the thresholds on guestimates (doesn't seem like a good idea) or would I just bear that in mind while looking at the data until I do my test? 

I think I'm going subscribe, really enjoying having all these numbers to look at! 

Just chill about the numbers - Rome was not built in a day....

 

Doing another FTP test is always a good idea - make sure you are well rested before though - 2 - 4 days off completely.

[V12man]

or the TdF perhaps 

Only if they have a grand masters cat.... :clap:

[NordicElf]

CTL and taper...

 

My current CTL is 89 odd and it peaked on Sunday at 92 odd. I'm about to start a 2 week taper (on Friday). I'd like to get my TSB around 10. How much can I expect the CTL to drop? I have a feeling this is going to freak me out - I want to get ahead of it! 

And is it useful to check these numbers out while I taper or do I just stick to my taper plan? Regardless of what the graph does?

I know tapering/peaking is the right thing to do but it's messing with my head! 

[jcza]

CTL and taper...

 

My current CTL is 89 odd and it peaked on Sunday at 92 odd. I'm about to start a 2 week taper (on Friday). I'd like to get my TSB around 10. How much can I expect the CTL to drop? I have a feeling this is going to freak me out - I want to get ahead of it! 

And is it useful to check these numbers out while I taper or do I just stick to my taper plan? Regardless of what the graph does?

I know tapering/peaking is the right thing to do but it's messing with my head! 

 

Input your planned rides and you will see the dotted lines track your predicted state. 

 

Important to correctly estimate your IF and TSS as accurately as possible else prediction will be off 

[JA-Q001]

In order for your CTL not to drop, but your TSB to get closer to 0, you will have to keep your training TSS just above the your CTL number. So if you say your CTL is approx 90, then you should try and keep your daily TSS at about 90 to 100, this way your TSS line stays just above your CTL, meaning that your that your TSB will be just below 0. This will also keep your CTL from dropping.

[JA-Q001]

Yes, thats what I am basically doing.

 

My understanding was to try and get your blue line up first, Thats base training, then you start working on power, your blue line will start to stabilize, but your pink line will stay some way above blue and yellow well into -, then you start tapering, with speed work and more recovery, keeping your pink line above blue, but allowing the yellow to get closer to 0.

 

this is all dependent on your time constraints. If you are a PRO, you have enough time to build your Blue line as high as possible, lets say 200 (don't know whats a realistic figure?), but the higher it goes, the harder you will have to constantly train to keep it steady. This is where your personal conditions come into play. If you do not have enough time to get that blue line higher or to maintain it, then that would be your peak (artificial peak if you want to call it that), this will be a lot lower than your natural peak.

 

Your peak should be when you have had the correct build and your pink line is still able to be above your blue one, but your yellow line is kept just below 0.

 

Another nice graph to look at, if available through TP is the stress graph, that indicates your Long term and short term Aerobic stress and long term and short term anaerobic stress.

During base, you are working mostly on your Long term Aerobic, power is your short term aerobic and long term anaerobic and lastly your tapering and speed work includes mostly short term anaerobic. 

I sat a bit and thought about the CTL number as mentioned above. Seeing as your CTL is a rolling TSS ave over 42 days, your CTL should not be over 100 with a balanced training plan. Your TSS goes above 100 on very long rides or very hard rides, recovery day will have your TSS below 100. Your TSS is also dependent on your FTP, as you get fitter, the higher your FTP and the harder it becomes to get a score over 100 TSS. If your CTL line goes high above 100 it could be that you are either training too much, too hard or your FTP setting is constantly too low. 

 

Training too much could mean that you do 5 hour rides at an IF of 0.5 the whole time, giving you a TSS of 250 constantly, this is ok in building a base, but wont get you faster and can also tire you out.

 

If you are only doing 2 hour rides, a IF of 0.5 is needed to give you a TSS of 100, meaning that if you constantly train too hard, even on shorter rides, your TSS score will ave above 100 and remember that resting is what makes you fit, so if you are not recovering enough, you will start to struggle getting your TSS above 100.

 

If your FTP is set too low, you will think that you are training nice and hard, your TSS goes above 100 easily for any ride, but you will also start to think you are training too hard if you follow the above 2 examples, meaning that you get a false sense of fitness. Easy way to see this is if you race and you are dying, but your legs feel fresh.

 

I think what I am stating here is correct?

[jcza]

JAQ I don't think you're quite correct.

 

TSS = Training volume

IF = Training intensity

 

Riding at FTP for a hour will give you roughly 100 TSS and IF of 1.0. A very easy 2 hour ride will probably give you 120 TSS and 0.6 IF. It is easy to generate TSS of > 100 when riding long, no intensity needed. 

 

As you say CTL is a rolling average and when tapering one will accept that it will decrease slightly but you will also be less fatigued.  

[NordicElf]

Input your planned rides and you will see the dotted lines track your predicted state. 

 

Important to correctly estimate your IF and TSS as accurately as possible else prediction will be off 

 

 

Ok, that's a good idea, I'll give that a go. Thanks

[NordicElf]

JAQ I don't think you're quite correct.

 

TSS = Training volume

IF = Training intensity

 

Riding at FTP for a hour will give you roughly 100 TSS and IF of 1.0. A very easy 2 hour ride will probably give you 120 TSS and 0.6 IF. It is easy to generate TSS of > 100 when riding long, no intensity needed. 

 

As you say CTL is a rolling average and when tapering one will accept that it will decrease slightly but you will also be less fatigued.  

 

 

How much would you expect CTL to drop though? What would be expected/ideal? 

[jcza]

How much would you expect CTL to drop though? What would be expected/ideal? 

 

I think its more important to watch the fatigue. You should reduce volume (TSS) when tapering. 

[jcza]

Read again - http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/what-is-the-performance-management-chart

[Robrider]

How much would you expect CTL to drop though? What would be expected/ideal? 

 

So just a minor correction of a previous post- the pink line is your fatigue and the Yellow line is your Form.

Form = fitness - fatigue

 

So what you want to do over the season is get your fitness as high as possible (without over training) and then taper. tapering will cause a loss of fitness but an increase in form. Think of your form as your freshness. Maximum Fitness and Form gives you the best performance.

 

You will loose a few ctl points in the taper, but don't worry too much about it. Personally, I think WHAT you do during the taper is more important than the graph. A race intensity effort every third day (but low volume) with light days in between. Lower the volume but keep the intensity. 

 

The fact that you loose some fitness during taper, is why it is recommended that you only taper twice per season.

 

On over training: The body can cope with more fatigue the fitter it gets. So your form is the line you want to keep an eye on (Training stress balance - ie balance between fitness and fatigue). Negative form means improving fitness (generally speaking), but if it goes too low, it means over training and you will feel flat and you could get sick. Its interesting that every time I have got sick it is when my form is past a certain threshold. Now I know how much is too much. But I think its personal for everyone.

[NordicElf]

So just a minor correction of a previous post- the pink line is your fatigue and the Yellow line is your Form.

Form = fitness - fatigue

 

So what you want to do over the season is get your fitness as high as possible (without over training) and then taper. tapering will cause a loss of fitness but an increase in form. Think of your form as your freshness. Maximum Fitness and Form gives you the best performance.

 

You will loose a few ctl points in the taper, but don't worry too much about it. Personally, I think WHAT you do during the taper is more important than the graph. A race intensity effort every third day (but low volume) with light days in between. Lower the volume but keep the intensity. 

 

The fact that you loose some fitness during taper, is why it is recommended that you only taper twice per season.

 

On over training: The body can cope with more fatigue the fitter it gets. So your form is the line you want to keep an eye on (Training stress balance - ie balance between fitness and fatigue). Negative form means improving fitness (generally speaking), but if it goes too low, it means over training and you will feel flat and you could get sick. Its interesting that every time I have got sick it is when my form is past a certain threshold. Now I know how much is too much. But I think its personal for everyon

 

 

Ok, so rather trust the taper and don't freak out if the CTL drops, just make sure the TSB goes up. 

I know that I'm overdue for an FTP test but I can't do it now. It will have to wait until after my event. I'm guessing that means that my numbers are probably a little higher than they really are. Although I am training pretty hard. And really starting to feel the difference, seems a pity to start tapering! Hah! See it's messing with my head!

[NordicElf]

I think its more important to watch the fatigue. You should reduce volume (TSS) when tapering. 

 

 

Read again - http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/what-is-the-performance-management-chart

 

Ok so the CTL is going to drop - don't freak out. Let the TSB come up but not too far. 

Thanks.

[Li Mu Bai]

Performance Manager Chart (PMC)

Each workout you complete can be assigned a TSS value. Your cumulative TSS is tracked over time in the Performance Manager Chart (PMC) within TrainingPeaks. The PMC helps you do two key things:

1) Target the perfect training build and taper to peak for your key events; and

2) Avoid injury that could happen from overtraining.

 

Here’s how the PMC works: As you accumulate TSS each day, your fitness improves. You can measure your overall long-term effect of training, which is fitness, using Chronic Training Load (CTL). CTL is the exponentially-weighted moving average of the previous 42 days of TSS accumulation. This means that it takes into account all of your workouts in the last six weeks, weighting the impact of the most recent ones more heavily. The CTL is an approximation of your current fitness:

 

You can also measure fatigue, the short-term effect of training, using Acute Training Load (ATL). ATL is your exponentially-weighted moving 7-day average TSS. Similar to the way CTL is calculated, your most recent workouts are more heavily weighted. This accurately reflects your current fatigue. For example, if you did some big rides last weekend, then you may still be sore from those workouts, and have a

high ATL as a result.

 

We know we cannot solely focus on raising training stress (ATL and CTL) since we also need to rest. We use a statistic called Training

Stress Balance (TSB) to measure your “form”: the combination of how “fit” and how “fresh” (well-rested) you are.

 

• Long term effects of workouts = Fitness, measured by Chronic Training Load (CTL) BLUE LINE

• Short term effects of workouts = Fatigue, measured by Acute Training Load (ATL) PINK LINE

• Fitness (CTL) – Fatigue (ATL) = Form, measured by Training Stress Balance (TSB) YELLOW LINE

 

How it all fits together:

If your ATL is greater than your CTL, your TSB will be negative. You’ll be well-trained and very “fit”, but because you are fatigued you will not be on peak form or performance. If your ATL is less than CTL, your TSB will be positive. At a certain TSB, your fitness and your fatigue will be in balance so that you are in peak “form” for your event. You’re well-trained, fit, and rested— the recipe for a killer performance!

 

Over time, you can observe the positive TSB that generates a peak performance for you in training or racing. Then, you or your coach can

plan a build and taper that replicates a TSB for your A races.

Note: At some point, an overly positive TSB does indicate too much rest—detraining.

This may be observed during the off-season or injuries.

On your Performance Management Chart, aim for a neutral or positive Training Stress Balance (“form”) on race day.

 the higher your CTL, in general, the higher your FTP.

 

From Training Peaks - How to start training with power eBook.