VO2 estimation using HR

[HeadDown]

SNIP

 

Let me give you a personalised example (worth a laugh at most) - my own measured VO2max/kg was EXACTLY the same as Zithulele Sinqe (same lab, same treadmill, same day, same tester) - but he could kick my ass every day of the week in anything over 200m (and he regularly (i.e. always) did during our lunchtime runs back in the 80's when I was a student)

 

On a rowing ergometer I could always generate a much higher results than him - but given that neither of us could row worth a damn - we never tested that in a race.

Loved watching that guy run during the late 80's. Would have thought his VO2max would have been off the charts. (Unless yours is as well. )

[V12man]

In my VO2max test, they give a value for Peak RER (Respiratory Exchange Ratio). When I questioned the guy doing the test, he couldn't explain it to me, and would find out. He never came back to me and I never bothered about it further.

 

In the notes it refers to Peak RER as:

the relationship between the amount of O2 inhaled and CO2 exhaled in one breath. It can predict the proportion of which fuel your body is using for energy (fats vs carbs). It can also give an idea of how hard an athlete has pushed during a bout of exercise.

 

 

Edit: posted too quickly.

 

I'd be interested to know the bit about "predicting the proportion of which fuel (fats vs carbs)."

How good are your chemistry skills? it's all in the conversion ratios from glucose +o2 -> CO2 vs fat + o2 -> CO2 - basically it boils down to the fact that for evey carbon atom blown off when converting from glucose to CO2 you need less oxygen (because there is more o2 in glucose than in fatty acids)

 

I used to be able to explain this with the chemistry - but I am going to have to find the correct textbook again - if I even still have it.

[eddy]

Loved watching that guy run during the late 80's. Would have thought his VO2max would have been off the charts. (Unless yours is as well. )

 

 

I suspect that that is the case...

[V12man]

Loved watching that guy run during the late 80's. Would have thought his VO2max would have been off the charts. (Unless yours is as well. )

We also thought it would be - but when tested it was high, but not anywhere near what we thought it would be. From memory, the exact numbers are published in Law of Running - around edition 5 or so (after '87 anyway)

 

Like I say - VO2 max is not a great measure of ability to perform in a race - nice to compare your own training state against yourself over time - but not much more use than that.

 

I personally believe VO2 testing is significantly affected by the subject's state of leaness - given that ultra lean athletes seem to be able to use their lung volume more effectively than when they are more rotund - this makes some sense to me in that the diaphrahm is not obstructed so much by visceral fat and is better able to operate efficiently - this is probably more obvious in asthmatics who have much better lung function test results when they drop significant mass.

[andydude]

This is a test that I am keen to do.

 

Want to know at what wattages one moves from one energy source to another....

Found a place, will give feedback once done.

 

In my old test they also looked at my crossover point and it was defined as "the point at which you start to utilize more carbohydrate than fat for fuel substrate purposes". My absolute MTCrossover point power was at 215 watts.

 

Would be nice to see more detail in a graph/table with smaller increments and % carbs and fat for each increment.

[andydude]

How good are your chemistry skills? it's all in the conversion ratios from glucose +o2 -> CO2 vs fat + o2 -> CO2 - basically it boils down to the fact that for evey carbon atom blown off when converting from glucose to CO2 you need less oxygen (because there is more o2 in glucose than in fatty acids)

 

I used to be able to explain this with the chemistry - but I am going to have to find the correct textbook again - if I even still have it.

 

I'm thinking of you teaching and then thought about "juffrou Gouws" - you know?!

 

It's an interesting area and I'm learning here so I appreciate your feedback and helping me!

[V12man]

I'm thinking of you teaching and then thought about "juffrou Gouws" - you know?!

 

It's an interesting area and I'm learning here so I appreciate your feedback and helping me!

Genade man....  Ek het ook 'n onnie "Juffrow Gouws" gehad....  nooit van haar gehou nie.... 

 

I can suggest actually finding a copy of Lore or running (a newer copy) and reading that - lots of basic physiology explained for the non physiologist athlete in pretty easily readable format - and lots of good stories told too - and it's a fairly big book too - like 1000 odd pages - should keep you busy over winter.... despite it's age, it's stiil a good introduction.

[andydude]

Genade man....  Ek het ook 'n onnie "Juffrow Gouws" gehad....  nooit van haar gehou nie.... 

 

I can suggest actually finding a copy of Lore or running (a newer copy) and reading that - lots of basic physiology explained for the non physiologist athlete in pretty easily readable format - and lots of good stories told too - and it's a fairly big book too - like 1000 odd pages - should keep you busy over winter.... despite it's age, it's stiil a good introduction.

 

Cool thanks V12.

 

Changing course, but in your mind, what is a good training method to follow if only HR data is available? For example, calculate the training zones (perhaps using the Karvonen method or the Joe Friel method) and then train according to the zones in structured training sessions?

[V12man]

Cool thanks V12.

 

Changing course, but in your mind, what is a good training method to follow if only HR data is available? For example, calculate the training zones (perhaps using the Karvonen method or the Joe Friel method) and then train according to the zones in structured training sessions?

Get a quality coach, pay for their time - Jay McStay in the UK, Wayne Girdlestone in NZ, Ian Rodgers, Jeroen Swart from SSISA and the like.

 

Learn to do intervals.... as hard and as fast as you can.... as many as possible....

 

Everything from 30 sec to 20 min per interval... 3 interval sessions a week - and go racing every weekend - quality over quantity.

 

And learn to recover properly - avoid junk miles (unless you just like riding - in which case - aim for 40 hours a week of riding)

 

and finally - do what your coach tells you to do.... exactly....

[Frosty]

This is a test that I am keen to do.

 

Want to know at what wattages one moves from one energy source to another....

Found a place, will give feedback once done.

I did the Vitality Elite Fitness test at UJ.

 

The ramp test increased by 1W every 4 seconds until cadence is below 70 rpm or one can't pedal anymore.

 

It was on old equipment from the 80's, which meant I was pedalling with tekkies and toe-clips, so I'm not sure if I lost any possible efficiency closer to the peak period of the test.

 

I have since heard that the studio in Rosebank (Bruce Diesel was involved there before he emigrated) can do it for half the cost of the Vitality one.

[Frosty]

How good are your chemistry skills? it's all in the conversion ratios from glucose +o2 -> CO2 vs fat + o2 -> CO2 - basically it boils down to the fact that for evey carbon atom blown off when converting from glucose to CO2 you need less oxygen (because there is more o2 in glucose than in fatty acids)

 

I used to be able to explain this with the chemistry - but I am going to have to find the correct textbook again - if I even still have it.

Chemistry skills weren't my strong point at school, but my Google skills are better - it's believing what is out there that could be a problem.

[andydude]

Some more reading which confirms V12's point that VO2 max on its own is not worth much in terms of a measure for racing performance.

 

Why is VO2max important?

 

A high VO2max is important since it means there will be a greater absorption and utilisation of oxygen in the working muscles, thus giving the athlete the potential to work at higher work rates before the muscles demand for oxygen exceeds the supply. It is considered to be one of the best indicators of cardiovascular fitness and has been shown to be a key determinant of endurance exercise performance (Conley and Krahenbuhl, 1980; Morgan et al., 1989; Jacobs et al., 2011). Interestingly, a high VO2max may be more important for older athletes, where research suggests that it may be a better predictor of endurance performance capacity than the lactate threshold (Marcell et al., 2003; Wiswell et al., 2000).

 

The importance of a high VO2max has been questioned by some researchers and coaches however most elite endurance athletes tend to record a high VO2max (Noakes, 1991; Daniels and Daniels, 1992). Despite this it is important to note that there are a number of other factors that affect endurance exercise performance – exercise economy/economy of motion, sustainable %VO2max, Lactate threshold and the velocity at VO2max (vVO2max) – and as such an athlete with a higher VO2max will not necessarily beat an athlete with a lower VO2max. In essence a high VO2max gives an athlete the potential to reach an elite level, but there performance will also be dependent on other factors (Conley and Krahenbuhl, 1980; Morgan et al., 1989; Fallowfield and Wilkinson, 1999).

 

A further consideration is that a high VO2max indicates that an athlete has an extremely efficient cardiovascular system that will not only allow them to maximize their potential, but likely allow them to better cope and recover more quickly from the physiological demands of the large training volumes and intensities utilised during endurance training. This is supported by research looking at the effects of interval training on excess post-exercise consumption (EPOC) in which the researchers found that those with greater cardiovascular fitness (i.e. higher VO2max) had a reduced magnitude of EPOC (Matsuo et al., 2012) – in other words they had a quicker return to resting metabolism than those with lower VO2max.

 

From: http://training4endurance.co.uk/physiology-of-endurance/vo2max/

[andydude]

Chemistry skills weren't my strong point at school, but my Google skills are better - it's believing what is out there that could be a problem.

 

Exactly the same problem I have. That is why I try to read many different sources and also ask questions here to get all inputs.

[Runbikeswim]

Nice find

[andydude]

From Yann le Meur. He does cool graphics which summarises sport science ideas and articles.