Lack of maintenance v warranty

[Skinnyone]

I hear you on the grease port - the general consensus is tho that it adds weight...so no good. Also grease ports cause grease to ooze out of the bearing and into the surrounds - this attracts dust which grease + dust = grinding paste for all surrounding components...

 

Look every 6 months is a lot but I always say pivot bearings should be inspected every 6 months and replaced at least once a year. How often do you replace or service your wheel bearings in your hubs then? 

 

Yes the riders do select the bearings because like I say do YOU want to ride a 20kg bike that will never need a service? 99.9% of the answers will be "no I want a 10kg mtb" so the designers spec the bikes with smaller bearings to make the weight cut but need replacement once a year.

[madbradd]

I'm just saying that there are always compromises in design, often why the pros rides different stuff to what we ride - they have a full time mechanic and don't have to fork out for the service costs.

 

But when it comes to buying and owning and maintaining a bike, we all know they're expensive. If I was offered a slightly heavier but guaranteed maintenance free suspension system in the same bike, I would certainly consider it. If there is a stringent stipulation on the replacement of components which has a material effect on the warranty, then offer a "service plan" of sorts. When you've already paid for something to be replaced every 6 months for 2/3 years or you lose your warranty, chances are a hell of a lot better that you'll get it serviced.

 

Getting blindsided by a "Nope your warranty is void because you can't prove to me that you replaced the bearings every 6 months" is a kick in the teeth.

[Skinnyone]

AH HA you my friend have hit the nail on the head! BUT when I say to a potential bike/component buyer "don't buy the XTR spec'd SWorks because the maintenance will cost you a lot" the typical response is along the lines of "I want to go fast, so need the fastest, lightest bike so I can have a p*ssing match with my buddy who has the latest and greatest and I don't care about cost"

 

6 months down the line when it comes in for a service the same client now wants to b8tch at the price of a service...Very few people have your mindset of rather riding a slightly heavier bike.

 

in my original comment I was reacting to the fact that the OP's "friend" hadn't had the pivot bearings replaced in the last 2 years. So I as a warranties manager would look at the history of the bike, the history of servicing and take it from there. if its a 2 year old bike and he hadn't replaced pivot bearings in the last 6 months to a year leading up to the crack that has caused the frame to crack in the areas surrounding the pivots - then I would be asking serious questions about lack of maintenance.

 

Not to say that one has to replace pivot bearings every 6 months otherwise you void your warranty, but what I am saying is keep on top of your maintenance so that if something like this were to happen then there can be little argument from the distributors side as to the service history. Same applies to a car, if you miss a service and then the engine seizes the dealer will say its because of lack of maintenance.... 

[raptor-22]

So Raptor, I know you fly models, if you "lock out" a control surface and try to move the servo, chances are something will break - yes or no?

 

poor design/construction?

 

You're not trouble shooting this appropriately since that would be a case of operator error. An aileron or elevator is not designed to be locked out. They are designed to articulate.

 

A locked out rear suspension is designed to be operated in that mode. Therefore failure that arises from operation in that mode cannot be attributed tithe operator. Seized pivot bearings in effect constitute a locked out operation if the rear triangle cracks the manufacturer must demonstrate how this contributed to failure and subsequent warranty rejection. If they can't then I'll take my new swing arm or see them in court.

 

Now go and read the warranty terms and conditions of any mtb. Effectively no mtb has a warranty and all the manufacturer is offering is goodwill if they like you or not. Ride an XC bike in such a manner that the wheels leave the ground ,....warranty is void.

 

There are a great many companies that look att he reasonableness of a claim. They accept that a bike will leave the ground but stop short when a XC bike is used for downhill racing. In such cases the bike is in use outside of its design envelope and that voids warranty.

 

Riding a bike with worn pivots would outside the warranty terms if you were claiming for worn pivots or ovalised pivot bearing housing. If the frame cracks then that is due to poor design or poor manufacture. But I'm sure one or two companies will spin it as being a paint problem ......

[Skinnyone]

I disagree, a suspension system is designed to articulate as well, and although they do factor in the lockout capabilities, it is STILL meant to articulate freely. 

 

I made mention about the frame cracking around the pivot areas due to a seized bearing, if the frame cracks around the head tube for example then that is a different story altogether.

[raptor-22]

what is the pivot areas? the bearing seat, the whole rocker arm, the rear subframe? What part specifically?

 Because in a locked out mode the same areas of the frame see similar stresses compared to when a bearing is seized. If the frame cracks when used in a mode provided for by the manufacturer then its a design fault and therefore the manufacturers problem, not the bike owners.

 

Being designed to articulate does not remove their responsibility to provide a product that is suitable for use in all the modes it is marketed as being useful.

[madbradd]

Very seldom would all (10 on my bike) suspension bearings seize at same time (same effect as locking out). 1 seized bearing will completely change the response of the suspension linkage causing either a cascade of multiple (bearing) failures, or a cracked frame.

 

That said I work in an industry where a single component failure will not result in any loss of operation so really cannot relate to the acceptance that a single component failure will result in catastrophic failure of the system and then be considered "user error". (The equipment I'm dealing with at the moment can have 3/26 components fail completely and still operate at 100%, the 4th failure will result in non operation but only require component replacement, not system replacement)

[Skinnyone]

Very seldom would all (10 on my bike) suspension bearings seize at same time (same effect as locking out). 1 seized bearing will completely change the response of the suspension linkage causing either a cascade of multiple (bearing) failures, or a cracked frame.

 

That said I work in an industry where a single component failure will not result in any loss of operation so really cannot relate to the acceptance that a single component failure will result in catastrophic failure of the system and then be considered "user error". (The equipment I'm dealing with at the moment can have 3/26 components fail completely and still operate at 100%, the 4th failure will result in non operation but only require component replacement, not system replacement)

Again I will refer to my example of a 20kg bike....And I am not saying that all 10 bearings will need to seize but 1 seized bearing will influence the system as a whole and create a less than ideal situation.

 

Your machines have redundancy built in so that they can run on 3 bearings less, but a bicycle has less chance (not saying no chance) of a full on redundancy system to be designed in.

[NotSoBigBen]

Now I have a better excuse for why I don't use lock out on any of my forks/shocks 'it's bad for them/the bike' sounds better than 'I forget to unlock them' 

[rock]

I know its a bit of a "friday" comment, but ride a steel hard tail and you wont ever need to worry about dealing with warranty problems.

[raptor-22]

I know its a bit of a "friday" comment, but ride a steel hard tail and you wont ever need to worry about dealing with warranty problems.

I submitted two steel frames for warranty in my mtb life.

[Grebel]

Just out of curiosity, are any of these service intervals highlighted on the contract that you sign when you purchase your full suspension mountainbike from the dealer and does the salesman explain to his client that if any of the services are missed, that the warranty is then nul and void?

[raptor-22]

Again I will refer to my example of a 20kg bike....And I am not saying that all 10 bearings will need to seize but 1 seized bearing will influence the system as a whole and create a less than ideal situation.

 

Your machines have redundancy built in so that they can run on 3 bearings less, but a bicycle has less chance (not saying no chance) of a full on redundancy system to be designed in.

So you admit that it's a design fault.....

[Skylark]

I submitted two steel frames for warranty in my mtb life.

I'm not surprised to hear that[emoji14]

[rock]

I submitted two steel frames for warranty in my mtb life.

 

name and shame please

[Whatsup!]

Interesting responses.

As far as I know the bike had some basic services, but not a full service (bearings etc)

I agree that if this is a common problem then it is probably due to problem in the design or workmanship and hence a warranty claim. As far as I know this is not the case with the brand or model. 

 

My understanding is that the rear shock, when locked still has some give and will give with a big enough force, to prevent damage to the shock .

 

My feeling is that there were no previous issues and did not have a catastrophic failure, just a small crack.

 

From what I saw, it was two bearing on the right hand side that were locking up and I could notice a small twisting when pushing down on the saddle. I believe that this is what caused the damage and if the bearings were running smoothly, the crack would not have formed. This is just my opinion and no scientific evidence to back it up.

 

Anyway this is a good reason to service regularly and not to use a pressure hose!