Getting dizzy during races

[Thor Buttox]

While you are waiting - check out 2 terms: orthostatic hypotension and vasovagal response. Just to show that the obvious isn't always so obvious. Blitzer already mentioned the vestibular organ. Check it out.

Funny how medicine is always easier for the guys that are haters.

With your family history I will see a cardiologist for a full stress ECG and nothing less (unless you have many ducks).

Jokes about noughts aside, I suffer from O.H. Quite severely on occasions, to the point of almost blackout. Can be very disorientating, but my BP has been 120/80 all my life with no other issues so I get by.

[V12man]

Ok first update, went to the doc, nice lady. Used alot of big words which i dont understand but i am off to a few (she ticked half the forms boxes) blood tests this morning. (for the amount of tests they might have to drain my body for enough blood) also they will do a test where they food me sugar and then keep taking blood to see the affect of it or something like that.

 

Doctor also concerned that its heart related. When tests results are back i will go for normal ECG and stressed ECG. Told her i only feel that way when i am doing looong endurance exercises so i doubt if a quick step test will show it but hey you never know.

 

She also said there are guys that does a 24hr ECG test where they mount a machine on you and you carry it around with you for a day.

 

Mentioned everything to her. (actually sat with this thread open and read from it  )

 

Cheers to everyone and their opinions and i'll keep posting about my journey thats costing me more than an overseas holiday or a new bike for that matter. On the brightside maybe they find out im diabetic or something and thats why i am fat and there is a miracle drug i can take that will help me loose 10kilos a day or something. 

OK - good you are eliminating other potential causes.

 

What I believe you suffer from is post excercise postural hypotension - this is pretty common at the end of endurance races, and is believed to be the most common cause of collapse amongst endurance trained athletes.

 

Read the section in this articles below - laymans version of what is happening.

 

https://runnersconnect.net/running-injury-prevention/why-runners-collapse-during-or-after-a-race/

http://www.twooceansmarathon.org.za/news/medical-newsflash-post-exercise-postural-hypotension

 

 

There is a subset of people to whom this happens consistently post excersise (I can introduce you to one that experiences this post every 25 minute run - takes about 20 minutes for her to get back to feeling normal again) - and I suspect you are in that group of people - so what happens is that when you stop excercise, you blood pressure drops significantly, and your body does not respond fast enough to this (as in more normal people) to maintain the pressure inside normal values for a while - this is reasonably easy to confirm your BP sensitivity to orthostatic changes using a inversion table (flips you upside down and back) - while taking your BP - there is a protocol for this test that I don't know - pretty sure SSI will know it, because SSI has done a lot of research on the subject.

 

BUT - no treatment I know of exists for this that works without raising your resting BP (not advisable) - my suggestion would be to contact Dr Martin Schwelnus at SSI in CT - he will know of any updates on that position

 

My suggestion would be in short term to eliminate other potential cardiac and health risks, and try to find an excercise intensity level that when you do have a sudden stop does not invoke such an extreme response - perhaps racing is not for you unfortunately.

 

Some other links on the subject - more tech and require pubmed access to read some of the related articles

 

http://www.pubfacts.com/detail/8614313/The-prevalence-and-significance-of-post-exercise-postural-hypotension-in-ultramarathon-runners.

 

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/37/3/277.full

 

http://www.nature.com/jhh/journal/v16/n4/full/1001377a.html

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2888469/

[Thor Buttox]

OK - good you are eliminating other potential causes.

 

What I believe you suffer from is post excercise postural hypotension - this is pretty common at the end of endurance races, and is believed to be the most common cause of collapse amongst endurance trained athletes.

 

Read the section in this articles below - laymans version of what is happening.

 

https://runnersconnect.net/running-injury-prevention/why-runners-collapse-during-or-after-a-race/

http://www.twooceansmarathon.org.za/news/medical-newsflash-post-exercise-postural-hypotension

 

 

There is a subset of people to whom this happens consistently post excersise (I can introduce you to one that experiences this post every 25 minute run - takes about 20 minutes for her to get back to feeling normal again) - and I suspect you are in that group of people - so what happens is that when you stop excercise, you blood pressure drops significantly, and your body does not respond fast enough to this (as in more normal people) to maintain the pressure inside normal values for a while - this is reasonably easy to confirm your BP sensitivity to orthostatic changes using a inversion table (flips you upside down and back) - while taking your BP - there is a protocol for this test that I don't know - pretty sure SSI will know it, because SSI has done a lot of research on the subject.

 

BUT - no treatment I know of exists for this that works without raising your resting BP (not advisable) - my suggestion would be to contact Dr Martin Schwelnus at SSI in CT - he will know of any updates on that position

 

My suggestion would be in short term to eliminate other potential cardiac and health risks, and try to find an excercise intensity level that when you do have a sudden stop does not invoke such an extreme response - perhaps racing is not for you unfortunately.

 

Some other links on the subject - more tech and require pubmed access to read some of the related articles

 

http://www.pubfacts.com/detail/8614313/The-prevalence-and-significance-of-post-exercise-postural-hypotension-in-ultramarathon-runners.

 

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/37/3/277.full

 

http://www.nature.com/jhh/journal/v16/n4/full/1001377a.html

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2888469/

Thanks V12, you have confirmed what I have been told, too.

[V12man]

hahaha yeah!! hopefully there are good advances in medicine and by the time we need a finger up the butt they can do a sonar or take a photo with an iphone or something...easier...

There is a blood test - but it's not guaranteed - has false positives and false negatives - so don't rely completely on it

 

And yes  - sonar can be used - BUT - someone has to pay for the machine (this would be YOU) and fingers are quick, cheap and pretty damn good as an examination tool.

 

[TALUS]

OK - good you are eliminating other potential causes.

 

What I believe you suffer from is post excercise postural hypotension - this is pretty common at the end of endurance races, and is believed to be the most common cause of collapse amongst endurance trained athletes.

 

Read the section in this articles below - laymans version of what is happening.

 

https://runnersconnect.net/running-injury-prevention/why-runners-collapse-during-or-after-a-race/

http://www.twooceansmarathon.org.za/news/medical-newsflash-post-exercise-postural-hypotension

 

 

There is a subset of people to whom this happens consistently post excersise (I can introduce you to one that experiences this post every 25 minute run - takes about 20 minutes for her to get back to feeling normal again) - and I suspect you are in that group of people - so what happens is that when you stop excercise, you blood pressure drops significantly, and your body does not respond fast enough to this (as in more normal people) to maintain the pressure inside normal values for a while - this is reasonably easy to confirm your BP sensitivity to orthostatic changes using a inversion table (flips you upside down and back) - while taking your BP - there is a protocol for this test that I don't know - pretty sure SSI will know it, because SSI has done a lot of research on the subject.

 

BUT - no treatment I know of exists for this that works without raising your resting BP (not advisable) - my suggestion would be to contact Dr Martin Schwelnus at SSI in CT - he will know of any updates on that position

 

My suggestion would be in short term to eliminate other potential cardiac and health risks, and try to find an excercise intensity level that when you do have a sudden stop does not invoke such an extreme response - perhaps racing is not for you unfortunately.

 

Some other links on the subject - more tech and require pubmed access to read some of the related articles

 

http://www.pubfacts.com/detail/8614313/The-prevalence-and-significance-of-post-exercise-postural-hypotension-in-ultramarathon-runners.

 

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/37/3/277.full

 

http://www.nature.com/jhh/journal/v16/n4/full/1001377a.html

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2888469/

Great reply. BTW Prof Schwelnus is at Tuks now. I recently did a series of lectures with him. He is very clued up.

[V12man]

Great reply. BTW Prof Schwelnus is at Tuks now. I recently did a series of lectures with him. He is very clued up.

He is a good guy - didn't know he had moved to Tuks (where is that again?)

 

I did a year with him at 1 Mil - many many many years ago...

[Escapee..]

There is a blood test - but it's not guaranteed - has false positives and false negatives - so don't rely completely on it

 

And yes  - sonar can be used - BUT - someone has to pay for the machine (this would be YOU) and fingers are quick, cheap and pretty damn good as an examination tool.

 

 

Dips would have liked your post V12

[BDF]

While you are waiting - check out 2 terms: orthostatic hypotension and vasovagal response. Just to show that the obvious isn't always so obvious. Blitzer already mentioned the vestibular organ. Check it out.

Funny how medicine is always easier for the guys that are haters.

With your family history I will see a cardiologist for a full stress ECG and nothing less (unless you have many ducks).

Wondered what you meant with this comment?

[TALUS]

Wondered what you meant with this comment?

It is very easy to show how many unnecessary tests are done and how clinicians flounder for answers, yet there are MANY causes for any clinical symptom. The lawyers always find it simple in retrospect to show that the scarce but dangerous conditions should be excluded first- this often means expensive but negative tests. It is hard to do the actual balancing act between all the factors involved. This is of course easy for the Haters

 

Sideline comments are cheap until you actually have to face up years later for a decision. Many comments here on how Hubbers dont like to deal with Dr's - it is just hard to find an Alternative Practitioner to actually own up to their work.

 

So just wondering - why the distrust?

 

So far at least 3 specialists offered solid help.

[BDF]

It is very easy to show how many unnecessary tests are done and how clinicians flounder for answers, yet there are MANY causes for any clinical symptom. The lawyers always find it simple in retrospect to show that the scarce but dangerous conditions should be excluded first- this often means expensive but negative tests. It is hard to do the actual balancing act between all the factors involved. This is of course easy for the Haters

 

Sideline comments are cheap until you actually have to face up years later for a decision. Many comments here on how Hubbers dont like to deal with Dr's - it is just hard to find an Alternative Practitioner to actually own up to their work.

 

So just wondering - why the distrust?

 

So far at least 3 specialists offered solid help.

Ok, I get your point. If it were not for doctors (GP and Specialists) I would be cripple right now. But I must say that not all Doctors are equal. 

[lerouc]

What a *** experience with the bloodtests this morning. I was there bright and early at 7h30 as the blood glucose will take 2 hours. but first they draw blood and check sugar level (5.5 btw) and then they give me glucose and wait 2 hours and take another sample. Well thats what i googled after the nurse had to phone someone and ask them how to do the glucose test.

 

So after the initial draw they send me into hallway to wait. After 90 minutes they call me in and give me the glucose and say another 30 minutes and i am done. I then start questioning the sister whether she is right and she assured me she is but i am sure shes not so again she phones someone.

 

She asked for a helpdesk on the phone so i dont know who she phoned and she was speaking some african language so i didn't understand everything but after she put the phone done she says im right she can only draw after 2 hours now.

 

So the tests that was supposed to take 2 hours took me 3.5 hours.

[Bateleur1]

It is very easy to show how many unnecessary tests are done and how clinicians flounder for answers, yet there are MANY causes for any clinical symptom. The lawyers always find it simple in retrospect to show that the scarce but dangerous conditions should be excluded first- this often means expensive but negative tests. It is hard to do the actual balancing act between all the factors involved. This is of course easy for the Haters

 

Sideline comments are cheap until you actually have to face up years later for a decision. Many comments here on how Hubbers dont like to deal with Dr's - it is just hard to find an Alternative Practitioner to actually own up to their work.

 

So just wondering - why the distrust?

 

So far at least 3 specialists offered solid help.

 

Many people nowadays would rather trust google than a doctor.  I always say if you do not agree with a doctor then there is always the second opinion option.  Internet is good for informing yourself but does not make a doctor.  I prefer to have a network of medical practioners who I build a relationship with and strike rapport with in time.  When the time comes I know who to trust and who to use for a second opinion.

 

This is one of the big challenges for me since moving to Germany.  Building that network again.

[V12man]

Dips would have liked your post V12

I sent him some blood and guts pictures the other day (well almost healed scars) - don't think he appreciates my sense of humour currently

[TALUS]

What a *** experience with the bloodtests this morning. I was there bright and early at 7h30 as the blood glucose will take 2 hours. but first they draw blood and check sugar level (5.5 btw) and then they give me glucose and wait 2 hours and take another sample. Well thats what i googled after the nurse had to phone someone and ask them how to do the glucose test.

 

So after the initial draw they send me into hallway to wait. After 90 minutes they call me in and give me the glucose and say another 30 minutes and i am done. I then start questioning the sister whether she is right and she assured me she is but i am sure shes not so again she phones someone.

 

She asked for a helpdesk on the phone so i dont know who she phoned and she was speaking some african language so i didn't understand everything but after she put the phone done she says im right she can only draw after 2 hours now.

 

So the tests that was supposed to take 2 hours took me 3.5 hours.

Pure incompetence. Phone the lab and speak to one of the partners or head of chemical pathology. You have a lot of venting to do - this should be routine for a lab.

[lerouc]

Pure incompetence. Phone the lab and speak to one of the partners or head of chemical pathology. You have a lot of venting to do - this should be routine for a lab.

 

Just want to wait for them to give the results of all the tests first otherwise they might end up taking their time if i start complaining now.

[Escapee..]

It is very easy to show how many unnecessary tests are done and how clinicians flounder for answers, yet there are MANY causes for any clinical symptom. The lawyers always find it simple in retrospect to show that the scarce but dangerous conditions should be excluded first- this often means expensive but negative tests. It is hard to do the actual balancing act between all the factors involved. This is of course easy for the Haters

 

Sideline comments are cheap until you actually have to face up years later for a decision. Many comments here on how Hubbers dont like to deal with Dr's - it is just hard to find an Alternative Practitioner to actually own up to their work.

 

So just wondering - why the distrust?

 

So far at least 3 specialists offered solid help.

 

I have met 2 of them.

 

I now google as well