Knee problems, will changing pedals help

[HaydenWilson]

Hi everyone.

 

I seem to be developing knee problems that manifest when i do longer rides. The first time it appeared was after doing monster 2 years ago. I have always ridden with flats (started as a broke student dirt jumping and then just kept them on the trail bike) and according to my biokineticist riding buddy, i have a tendancy to rotate my foot on the pedal and he suspects that the foot rotation could be putting strain on my knee. I have tried to consciously correct that but during technical trails I find that i keep winding up in that foot position.

 

I dont want to spark off an entire flats vs clipless debate (this has been hashed to death on the net) but i would like to find out if anyone else has this problem and if you guys think that moving to clipless could help? My theory is that the cleats would force me to keep my foot in the correct position.

[Pulse]

Could you be a bit more specific on the pain (location, when you get it, how long its lasts, type of pain, etc).

 

Your feet would tend to follow its natural alignment (in most cases), restricting that natural movement seldom helps

[Theunissa]

Not to sound smart i just got my first bike. But have had your setup redone lately.

 

 

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[Matchstix]

I agree with pulse on the what your foot will do. Return to its natural position. Problems are usually on incorrectly setup clips not flats. my mates who had problems solved them by riding flats.

Also where the knee pain occurs is quite important. A to low saddle can also cause knee pain.

[seven]

Not to sound smart i just got my first bike. But have had your setup redone lately.

 

 

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Although it might be a setup thing (e.g. Excessive seat height), I don't think setup is always the solution to injuries

[Butterbean]

Knee pain can very often be muscular. If the muscles in your thighs and butt can't support the knee, it will put strain on the joint.

 

First, check bike setup for saddle height and fore/aft position. After that, go see a physio and see if you're having any muscular issues that they can rehabilitate.

[Plentipotential]

Why not see a knee specialist to determine what the problem is?

[Fat Boab]

Hi everyone.

 

I seem to be developing knee problems that manifest when i do longer rides. The first time it appeared was after doing monster 2 years ago. I have always ridden with flats (started as a broke student dirt jumping and then just kept them on the trail bike) and according to my biokineticist riding buddy, i have a tendancy to rotate my foot on the pedal and he suspects that the foot rotation could be putting strain on my knee. I have tried to consciously correct that but during technical trails I find that i keep winding up in that foot position.

 

I dont want to spark off an entire flats vs clipless debate (this has been hashed to death on the net) but i would like to find out if anyone else has this problem and if you guys think that moving to clipless could help? My theory is that the cleats would force me to keep my foot in the correct position.

 

Isn't your mate your solution?

 

Re-training a gait, cycling or otherwise, is doable, but anticipate knock-on issues, eg sore muscles, which will probably need additional interventions from a physio for instance, to either treat sore muscles, or build the correct muscles off the bike. I'd be very cautious of anchoring your feet to avoid your current rotation...

[carrera4s]

In my case a correctly aligned cleat is a MUST.  When I do longer rides, as my muscles get tired, they fail to keep my knee properly aligned.  The patella then starts to rub on the femur and I get Pattelofemoral Pain Syndrome (PFPS).

 

When I stay seated, the foot and hip is in the same position meaning the knee can only go up and down in the correct line (if the setup is correct).  So the cleat help my tired muscles to keep the knee straight.

 

However, when I am tired and get out of the saddle for a climb, that's when they go out of alignment and starts rubbing.

 

First week in July I did 2 rounds at Suikerbos as last training for the Jock.  On the second round I got out of the saddle at virtually every hill - BIG mistake - I still managed to do the Jock Classic, but never really recovered.  Been off the bike for > 2 months already.

 

And then somehow I managed to tear my right knee's meniscus as well - will need an op as well...

 

Go see Dr Rob Collins at Rosebank Sports Clinic.

[Tomik]

If your foot moves on the pedal, something is not being supported properly. Locking them into cleats may exacerbate the problem and cause more knee pain. Although most MTB cleats have a fair amount of play on them.

 

I would suggest first making sure your arches are supported properly. Sounds unconnected, but most knee pain is caused by bad/no foot support which often causes the knee to track inwards as the arch collapses under load. Check out steve hogg's blog on foot correction - lengthy, but well worth it. I had chronic knee pain and eventually PFPS - but am now pain-free with very little of the meniscus/cartilage left in my right knee. 

 

The Specialized insoles are cheap enough to try - they can advise on what you need but I would also try a higher one that they suggest to provide proper support. Good luck. 

[So Is Es]

Yes cleats will keep your foot in the correct position but.

Used to get knee pain as well even with correct cleat position and proper bike set up but still somehow managed to rotate my knee inward on the down stroke.

Spoke to lots of riding buddy's and others.

One of them suggested that this might be a muscle memory problem especially if you sit all day at work and suggested I go see a sports masseuse and get a proper muscle release massage done.

What do you know problem gone.

Now I go every 3 weeks for release massage.

[Lefty V]

 

Go see Dr Rob Collins at Rosebank Sports Clinic.

 

This^^

 

I don't know Dr Collins, but having had similar issues a couple of times during my riding life I can 100% confirm that the best way to sort it out is to see a doc with experience and training in the field before you start looking at changing shoes/pedals etc.

 

If you were in Cape Town I would have said Jeroen Swart for the win - he blew my mind with how "simply" he resolved an agonizing knee issue that the normal physios and own experience could not cure.

 

Good luck.

[NickGM]

Hi everyone.

 

I seem to be developing knee problems that manifest when i do longer rides. The first time it appeared was after doing monster 2 years ago. I have always ridden with flats (started as a broke student dirt jumping and then just kept them on the trail bike) and according to my biokineticist riding buddy, i have a tendancy to rotate my foot on the pedal and he suspects that the foot rotation could be putting strain on my knee. I have tried to consciously correct that but during technical trails I find that i keep winding up in that foot position.

 

I dont want to spark off an entire flats vs clipless debate (this has been hashed to death on the net) but i would like to find out if anyone else has this problem and if you guys think that moving to clipless could help? My theory is that the cleats would force me to keep my foot in the correct position.

 

For me, if you're getting some kind of predictable pain in a joint while riding, the first port of call should always be to go for a proper bike setup. I used to get this sharp pain in my left groin that used to kick in after about 5kms. I spent a lot of time at physios etc trying to strengthen different muscle groups and whatnot. Turns out all I had to do was drop my saddle by 5mm and I've never had that issue again.  

 

So from my experience you should start with getting the right setup. At the very least, it will rule that out as a cause, and give you peace of mind.

 

Then I would switch to clipped in pedals. If you are getting into XC stuff you should ride with them anyway, so it will be money well spent (assuming you don't buy a crank bros pedal) even if it doesn't fix your problem. But clipping in will also keep your foot in one position and allow you to activate more muscle groups - sharing out the load a bit more. 

 

THEN go down the biokineticist & physio route. If you do this first, you could end up having 5 sessions with the physio always wondering if it isn't something really cheap and simple that you could change instead. 

[devocean]

Is it possible you have an incorrect seat height (too low?). That's a big cause of front knee paint. And also are you pushing big gears?

[V12man]

Hi everyone.

 

I seem to be developing knee problems that manifest when i do longer rides. The first time it appeared was after doing monster 2 years ago. I have always ridden with flats (started as a broke student dirt jumping and then just kept them on the trail bike) and according to my biokineticist riding buddy, i have a tendancy to rotate my foot on the pedal and he suspects that the foot rotation could be putting strain on my knee. I have tried to consciously correct that but during technical trails I find that i keep winding up in that foot position.

 

I dont want to spark off an entire flats vs clipless debate (this has been hashed to death on the net) but i would like to find out if anyone else has this problem and if you guys think that moving to clipless could help? My theory is that the cleats would force me to keep my foot in the correct position.

First - diagnosis is not part of a biokineticists scope of practice, and can only be regarded as speculation at best.

 

Second - Make sure you have no underlying physical problem with the knee - so small semi lunate cartilage tear, ligament injury or something else - this will probably mean an mri at the very least and a physical examination by an experienced practitioner

 

Third - Cleats can and do change the knee's tracking through the pedal stroke depending on alignment, clip tension etc - this may or may not be of benefit to you

 

What would I do if I were you?

 

I would go initially to an experienced bike fit tech with a video analysis tool of your pedal stroke - and see what they can see on video in terms of your existing pedal usage, and what happens if you convert to cleats. (simple and relatively cheap - and you will at worst case get a good understanding of your fit and what your knee is doing)

 

Then I would consult with an experienced practitioner for a physical exam of the knee and see where that leads in terms of further investigation - it's quite possible you are just carrying an overuse injury or some other crash related injury that is affecting you, and it might (or might not) be fairly easy to solve.

 

 

OK - professional discussion over. Personally - I do know that my own knee tracking changes depending on cleat tension (as seen on video) - and it's pretty obvious - the real question you would need to answer is whether changing your pedal stroke will help your knee pain - or not - and what is the correct stroke to start experimenting with.

 

I have had good experience with the guys at cyclefit, but there are other fitters out there with video analysis kit and the skills to use it too - just be aware there are many who have kit but are charlatans too...

[carrera4s]

 

I have had good experience with the guys at cyclefit, but there are other fitters out there with video analysis kit and the skills to use it too - just be aware there are many who have kit but are charlatans too...

 

I had a VERY good first experience with Richard Baxter at Cyclefit, but he left when I had to do a second set-up and did it with one of the others - was less impressed the second round.

 

Went to Richard at Dunkeld Cycles for the 3rd and 4th set-up:  back to VERY good experience.  He also suggested the Specialised in-soles for me, but I was not able to try them out yet.