conversations with a table mountain mugger - groundup article

[Wannabe]

yup, that'll solve all our problems. As a matter of fact, why don't we just adopt Saudi style justice in SA? I mean Saudi must be an absolute paradise to live in...

 

 

I just learned that my niece's two little girls (aged 9 & 7) was raped by three lowlifes while they were in foster care, so yes, Saudi style justice will work just fine for me at this stage.....

[Serious Panda]

yup, that'll solve all our problems. As a matter of fact, why don't we just adopt Saudi style justice in SA? I mean Saudi must be an absolute paradise to live in...

 

No just shoot them in the act. And more Saudi-like justice is part of the real solution for crime.

[Slowbee]

Yes, if I had children they would not be in SA anymore permanently, like so many already are. Could have, should have, would have, the story of SA. I just think its too late now, options for real solutions have vanished with time.

great, feel free to close the door behind you when you leave.

[MTBeer]

No just shoot them in the act. And more Saudi-like justice is part of the real solution for crime.

Saudi style justice goes hand in hand with the bigotry and intolerance so rife in the Middle East. You want the one (Saudi justice), you will get the other one (oppression, discrimination, bigotry, etc)

.

I'm sure your wife/mother/daughter would love to live in a Middle Eastern type dictatorship.

[Mojoman]

great, feel free to close the door behind you when you leave.

If I had kids I would also be wondering what the options are in SA these days. Its hardly an economic powerhouse now and with Zuma hanging about like a crusty old snot rag in a paupers pocket, its unlikely to get any better! I love South Africa, have not been back to the UK since I left 31 years back as a kid but you have to be a realistic and make a plan for the future. You can't eat sunshine!

[MTBeer]

I just learned that my niece's two little girls (aged 9 & 7) was raped by three lowlifes while they were in foster care, so yes, Saudi style justice will work just fine for me at this stage.....

sorry to hear. Look, I'm not going to sit here and claim to never have had thoughts of mob style justice for certain criminals. But when I really think about it, I know it's not the right way. But I can imagine when it's close to home, thinking clearly and dispassionately is not easy.

[Serious Panda]

Saudi style justice goes hand in hand with the bigotry and intolerance so rife in the Middle East. You want the one (Saudi justice), you will get the other one (oppression, discrimination, bigotry, etc)

.

I'm sure your wife/mother/daughter would love to live in a Middle Eastern type dictatorship.

 

That is why I said Saudi-like and not Saudi. My point is that much harsher punishment is needed in SA.

 

Edit: But even this simple and obvious change will not happen. SA is a lost cause.

[MTBeer]

That is why I said Saudi-like and not Saudi. My point is that much harsher punishment is needed in SA.

I don't think capital punishment ( if that is what you are suggesting) will make a dent in our crime levels. All it will do is satisfy our need for revenge.

[Serious Panda]

great, feel free to close the door behind you when you leave.

 

Ok, as long as you stand in it.

[Mojoman]

I don't think capital punishment ( if that is what you are suggesting) will make a dent in our crime levels. All it will do is satisfy our need for revenge.

With a 27% unemployment rate and Zuma here till 2019, crime is just going to get even worse. Personally I feel we will hit extremely high unemployment figures by 2019 (not that it isnt now!). That's a lot of people with nothing to do, no income and no future.....

[MTBeer]

Ok, as long as you stand in it.

what was that religion you follow? nothing in there about compassion, forgiveness, etc?

 

just wondering...

[MTBeer]

With a 27% unemployment rate and Zuma here till 2019, crime is just going to get even worse. Personally I feel we will hit extremely high unemployment figures by 2019 (not that it isnt now!). That's a lot of people with nothing to do, no income and no future.....

you might be right. not sure how capital punishment is going to help then?

[Wannabe]

sorry to hear. Look, I'm not going to sit here and claim to never have had thoughts of mob style justice for certain criminals. But when I really think about it, I know it's not the right way. But I can imagine when it's close to home, thinking clearly and dispassionately is not easy.

 

 

I don't want to cut of their heads, I want to cut off the dangly bits that's bothering them so much..... They must be reminded of what they did for the rest of their miserable lives, just as those two beautiful young girls will be.   

[Mntboy]

IMO yes it does, and absolutely. It's not a very common trait, though

Agreed!

 

Your question about the R150 is very interesting. This post entirely an opinion based on experience, and I am sure social workers would have a far better on the ground experience, but I don't think a bunch of cyclists riding in on their kit would have a positive outcome. During a Habitat for Humanity build a few years ago, I had the privilege of walking around the community and being invited into peoples houses and the good, honest, proud people was a revelation. People are people and don't want to pitied - they want empowerment and an opportunity. (Not the Norton's but the vast, unreported majority)

 

I would think that investment of money or time into a good NGO would be a better way of uplifting the community, than unconnected projects to 'educate' which just alienate.

 

But I may be very wrong and would be interested what others think.

Yeah pretty much. That R150 is essentially feels like one is emptying the ocean with a spoon. Personally I would love to be actively involved in a program rather than just forking over cash. Unfortunately for me though because of work I am rarely at home and can't do so as being involved in such a program requires time and patience to gain the community's trust. So I fork over the cash and hope that the NGO I am supporting makes good use I it. It's a part solution and not a whole one.

Agreed. Unless the drive to educate included more facilities at a school or funds for more teachers etc

I know of a charity that does something pretty similar in Ocean View but with a particular focus on giving them skills to be able to earn a living. Another part solution.

 

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[The expat cyclist]

That said, it is easy to sit behind the anonymous safety of my pc and criticize after the fact, he had to make a quick judgement call while being in a somewhat dangerous situation dealing with a dangerous individual.

 

Not sure I agree with him having to make a quick judgement call.

He should have made that before he decided to do a story about a criminal.

 

He valued his own life above that of a stranger (possible victim of Norton) basically

Should he have believed he was in immanent danger by calling the cops, he would only have himself to blame, yes?

I mean some here are arguing the same point for Norton: He could have made better decisions and the outcome of his choices may be his own fault even.

 

I think it should cut both ways in all fairness.

 

Do I as a member of society value the contribution of this journalist?

Not really. Because what he told me about Norton is not new. Norton's story has been told already.

Nothing in there is going to prevent the next attack is it?

In fact, this story has divided society: Those that want to help Norton the kid and those that want to terminate Norton the criminal.

 

The unfortunate thing is that we will collide with  Norton the criminal long before we will be able to help  Norton the kid.

 

This sucks for everyone.

 

The best we can try and do is to prevent Norton the criminal from happening in the first place and that may be the only positive thing about this article; raising awareness about the importance of family and not using drugs etc.

If you tell me this is news to you then were are more fooked than I thought.

[Slowbee]

Ok, as long as you stand in it.

, as I said, when you leave, since everything is soooooooo bad and such a lost cause, please close the door.