Do I have a case? (Shop mistake)

[Grease_Monkey]

I am a bit peeved, but before I do anything let me get some opinions about if I actually have a case…

 

I bought a new Specialized bike in November (for a stupid amount of money) from a concept store. The bike has boost spacing and came out with a 28t chainring. This is too small for me, and I asked the store to replace it with a 32t chainring at around R1k, which they did before I picked up the bike. They gave me the spare 28t as well.

 

Over December I rode quite a bit, and because I am very unfit and my legs were dead I wanted to replace the 32t with the 28t on a day where I knew I was going to do quite a bit of hills. When I was busy replacing the chainring I realised that the 28t has a 3mm offset (as single chainrings should for a 1x set up on a boost bike), and the 32t that was on the bike had a 0mm offset. Now, the 0mm offset is the wrong chainring for the bike – it gives a really bad chainline and as a result will wear through the bigger gears in my cassette faster than it should.

 

I know it is my fault that I did not check the chainring Specialized put on my bike when I collected it, but the reason I didn’t check on it was because Specialized are surely knowledgeable enough to put the correct chainring on my bike. Do I have a case in terms of asking them to take the wrong chainring back and exchanging it for the correct one? Even though it is 700km later? And what about the additional wear that has now been inflicted on my cassette? They are not cheap, and taking 1000km of wear off the cassette because of a mistake made by the shop should surely not come out of my pocket? I don’t expect them to replace the cassette, but maybe a discount on the next cassette when this one is worn out?

 

Maybe I am completely out of line with my expectations? Would appreciate your inputs…

[Pure Savage]

I am a bit peeved, but before I do anything let me get some opinions about if I actually have a case…

 

I bought a new Specialized bike in November (for a stupid amount of money) from a concept store. The bike has boost spacing and came out with a 28t chainring. This is too small for me, and I asked the store to replace it with a 32t chainring at around R1k, which they did before I picked up the bike. They gave me the spare 28t as well.

 

Over December I rode quite a bit, and because I am very unfit and my legs were dead I wanted to replace the 32t with the 28t on a day where I knew I was going to do quite a bit of hills. When I was busy replacing the chainring I realised that the 28t has a 3mm offset (as single chainrings should for a 1x set up on a boost bike), and the 32t that was on the bike had a 0mm offset. Now, the 0mm offset is the wrong chainring for the bike – it gives a really bad chainline and as a result will wear through the bigger gears in my cassette faster than it should.

 

I know it is my fault that I did not check the chainring Specialized put on my bike when I collected it, but the reason I didn’t check on it was because Specialized are surely knowledgeable enough to put the correct chainring on my bike. Do I have a case in terms of asking them to take the wrong chainring back and exchanging it for the correct one? Even though it is 700km later? And what about the additional wear that has now been inflicted on my cassette? They are not cheap, and taking 1000km of wear off the cassette because of a mistake made by the shop should surely not come out of my pocket? I don’t expect them to replace the cassette, but maybe a discount on the next cassette when this one is worn out?

 

Maybe I am completely out of line with my expectations? Would appreciate your inputs…

 

I think its a fair thing to ask them, just say exactly what you said here. 

 

Should be a quick fix. 

 

Good luck

[Jewbacca]

I actually agree with you...

 

The shop should front up. I especially like the way you aren't demanding a new cassette and throwing all your toys.

 

I believe with that approach, the shop would be entirely remiss not to give you a new chainring along with a cost price chain and cassette.....

 

With the right attitude people will be far more inclined to work with you as opposed to feel backed into a corner where their fight or flight instincts take over.

 

Good luck. I hope the shop does indeed admit their error and move forward with you. Building a relationship you both trust.....

[Pure Savage]

Just say Pure Savage said so, bike shops LOVE that.

[Grease_Monkey]

Just say Pure Savage said so, bike shops LOVE that.

 

Haha I'll give that a try for sure 

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Okay - firstly - is your crank a spiderless crank (ie the chainring fits directly on to the crank arm and not on the 4 arm spider of a normal 104bcd crank) or is it a 104bcd 4 hole crank with a spider?

 

If the latter - here's the thing. The 28t ring HAS to have an offset, otherwise the chain will foul with the crank spider. None of the 32t rings I've seen have an offset.

 

If it's a direct mount chainring, then yes you have a case. Though I've yet to see a "boost chainring" as it's normally the spider / mount that is offset, unless I'm wrong.

 

I'm wrong Boost 104mm / 94mm BCD cranks are offset, spiderless cranks are the same for boost & non boost, and the rings themselves are offset. 

 

A 30t ring would also have the offset nut jobbies.

 

Essentially a 28t is too small to fit on a standard 104bcd spider without the spacers which are built into it, as the chain would come into direct contact with the spider arms.  

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

For a bit of reading on the subject, though, here's Wolftooth's synopsis on the whole boost thing.

 

http://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/pages/boost-chainline-and-chainrings

 

Essentially, they're saying that you don't NEED a boost ring except in particular situations. 

 

The meat of it:

 

To put a little more data behind claim 2, lets step back and look at a non-Boost rear hub.  The centerline of a 10 speed cassette is roughly 45 mm, and the center of 11 speed cassette is ~44mm from the centerline of a bike.  For proper shifting on a 1x setup you want to be at least ~2 mm to the outside (towards the small cogs) otherwise the chain will catch on the next bigger cogs when pedaling in the smaller cogs.  So a perfect 1x with minimal cross-chaining in the big cassette cogs is 46-47mm.  You might ask why SRAM designed a dedicated 1x drivetrain around a 49-50mm chainline, and the answer is very simple:  most bikes would only clear about a 28t chainring at a chainline that narrow and the most popular 1x sized chainring is a 32t with many riders wanting 34t and 36t options.  To put another way, across a very broad range of frames a chainline more narrow than about 49mm won't have adequate chainring clearance for the chainrings most people ride.

http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0230/9291/files/Boost_Picture_bb8e675f-8222-4ae6-8091-2e4f3985739b_grande.jpg?7100227419112134174

Coming back around to Boost, you can do the math quickly that for 10 speed 45mm centerline + 2mm shift towards the small cogs + 3mm boost shift = 50mm and for 11 speed 44mm+2mm+3mm = 49mm for the center of a Boost rear hub's cassette.  The ideal boost chainline is actually ~49-50mm if you have adequate chainstay clearance and don't run plus-sized tires.  This means that in most cases the current Wolf Tooth Drop Stop chainrings are perfectly suited for Boost rear hub  bikes.  The reason we don't make 46-47mm chainline rings for non-boost bikes is that most bikes have inadequate chain clearance for "average" sized chainrings (30t-32t) at that narrow chainline.

[Grease_Monkey]

Okay - firstly - is your crank a spiderless crank (ie the chainring fits directly on to the crank arm and not on the 4 arm spider of a normal 104bcd crank) or is it a 104bcd 4 hole crank with a spider?

 

If the latter - here's the thing. The 28t ring HAS to have an offset, otherwise the chain will foul with the crank spider. None of the 32t rings I've seen have an offset.

 

If it's a direct mount chainring, then yes you have a case. Though I've yet to see a "boost chainring" as it's normally the spider / mount that is offset, unless I'm wrong.

 

A 30t ring would also have the offset nut jobbies.

 

Essentially a 28t is too small to fit on a standard 104bcd spider without the spacers which are built into it, as the chain would come into direct contact with the spider arms.  

 

It is a Sram Spiderless Crank yes, so it takes Sram X-Sync Direct Mount chainrings. Yes, a 28t does have to have an offset, but, a 3mm offset is the standard for bike with Boost spacing, so the 32t they replaced it with should have also been a 3mm offset as well. Both Absolute Black, and Sram make chainrings with a 3mm offset specifically for Boost bikes.

 

Although shops do not really carry 3mm offset chainrings, they are readily available from the suppliers. So I think it was a case of the guy rgiving me the chainring being too lazy to order one, or simply not knowing the standards that come with Boost…

[Grease_Monkey]

For a bit of reading on the subject, though, here's Wolftooth's synopsis on the whole boost thing.

 

http://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/pages/boost-chainline-and-chainrings

 

Essentially, they're saying that you don't NEED a boost ring except in particular situations. 

 

The meat of it:

 

To put a little more data behind claim 2, lets step back and look at a non-Boost rear hub.  The centerline of a 10 speed cassette is roughly 45 mm, and the center of 11 speed cassette is ~44mm from the centerline of a bike.  For proper shifting on a 1x setup you want to be at least ~2 mm to the outside (towards the small cogs) otherwise the chain will catch on the next bigger cogs when pedaling in the smaller cogs.  So a perfect 1x with minimal cross-chaining in the big cassette cogs is 46-47mm.  You might ask why SRAM designed a dedicated 1x drivetrain around a 49-50mm chainline, and the answer is very simple:  most bikes would only clear about a 28t chainring at a chainline that narrow and the most popular 1x sized chainring is a 32t with many riders wanting 34t and 36t options.  To put another way, across a very broad range of frames a chainline more narrow than about 49mm won't have adequate chainring clearance for the chainrings most people ride.

http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0230/9291/files/Boost_Picture_bb8e675f-8222-4ae6-8091-2e4f3985739b_grande.jpg?7100227419112134174

Coming back around to Boost, you can do the math quickly that for 10 speed 45mm centerline + 2mm shift towards the small cogs + 3mm boost shift = 50mm and for 11 speed 44mm+2mm+3mm = 49mm for the center of a Boost rear hub's cassette.  The ideal boost chainline is actually ~49-50mm if you have adequate chainstay clearance and don't run plus-sized tires.  This means that in most cases the current Wolf Tooth Drop Stop chainrings are perfectly suited for Boost rear hub  bikes.  The reason we don't make 46-47mm chainline rings for non-boost bikes is that most bikes have inadequate chain clearance for "average" sized chainrings (30t-32t) at that narrow chainline.

 

In this case they are refering to spiderless chainrings with an offset of 6mm (this is the standard offset most chainrings come in). Which I actually did try, gives amazing chainline.... But I run plus size tyres so the chain rubs against the tyres in 42t cog. There is also then less than 1mm of clearance between the chainring and chainstay.

 

In other words with a 6mm offset (like wolftooth chainrings), I have clearance issues. With a 0mm offset like the shop put on, I have HORRIBLE chainline. So the only option for my bike is a 3mm offset. 

 

Edit: So basically what I am trying to say is that the above is correct, and I would gladly go with a 6mm offset in terms of chainline, my frame and tyres just do not allow.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

It is a Sram Spiderless Crank yes, so it takes Sram X-Sync Direct Mount chainrings. Yes, a 28t does have to have an offset, but, a 3mm offset is the standard for bike with Boost spacing, so the 32t they replaced it with should have also been a 3mm offset as well. Both Absolute Black, and Sram make chainrings with a 3mm offset specifically for Boost bikes.

 

Although shops do not really carry 3mm offset chainrings, they are readily available from the suppliers. So I think it was a case of the guy rgiving me the chainring being too lazy to order one, or simply not knowing the standards that come with Boost…

In that case, yes. You would have a claim. 

 

IIRC the boost 104mm cranks are offset, vs the spiderless which run different chainrings for boost & non boost. 

[Grease_Monkey]

In that case, yes. You would have a claim. 

 

IIRC the boost 104mm cranks are offset, vs the spiderless which run different chainrings for boost & non boost. 

 

Great stuff! I am going to be giving them a call later today. Will let you all know what happens. Thanks for the input!

[Bloukrans]

 

 

I bought a new Specialized bike in November (for a stupid amount of money) from a concept store. The bike has boost spacing and came out with a 28t chainring. This is too small for me, and I asked the store to replace it with a 32t chainring at around R1k, which they did before I picked up the bike. They gave me the spare 28t as well.

 

 

First mistake

 

Just kidding

 

OP, I like your approach in dealing with this matter and wish you well with the claim.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

In this case they are refering to spiderless chainrings with an offset of 6mm (this is the standard offset most chainrings come in). Which I actually did try, gives amazing chainline.... But I run plus size tyres so the chain rubs against the tyres in 42t cog. There is also then less than 1mm of clearance between the chainring and chainstay.

 

In other words with a 6mm offset (like wolftooth chainrings), I have clearance issues. With a 0mm offset like the shop put on, I have HORRIBLE chainline. So the only option for my bike is a 3mm offset. 

 

Edit: So basically what I am trying to say is that the above is correct, and I would gladly go with a 6mm offset in terms of chainline, my frame and tyres just do not allow.

bugger. That's a swak one. And definitely keep the plus tyres. They're amazing. 

[Escapee..]

http://replygif.net/i/1268.gif

[Grease_Monkey]

First mistake

 

Just kidding

 

OP, I like your approach in dealing with this matter and wish you well with the claim.

 

Hahaha I knew that was going to happen at some point on this thread 

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Great stuff! I am going to be giving them a call later today. Will let you all know what happens. Thanks for the input!

cool. Good luck, man. How many km have you put on the bike so far? If it's just a couple hundred km, I wouldn't worry that much over the new cassette / chain thing as it's only reaaally a problem if you have to change the cassette due to extra wear. 

 

But either way, see what comes of it.