What is the PPA doing?

[carbon29er]

This thread should not be about how PPA spend their money and how well or badly it is managed.

 

I believe it was started in response to the recent spate of accidents and a letter from the CEO.

 

In answer to Myles, I think talk is cheap, writing letters does nothing to enhance safety and is totally reactionary.

 

Every day I see mountain bikers riding against the traffic on Rhodes Drive in the Hohenort to Kirstenbosch section. I hope I never see the day when one gets hit by an oncoming car. But if I do, that will be the day we see action as apparently that is part of the Constantia MTB Greenbelts route. I fail to understand how breaking the law like that can be condoned on an official route.

[Pure Savage]

This thread should not be about how PPA spend their money and how well or badly it is managed.

 

I believe it was started in response to the recent spate of accidents and a letter from the CEO.

 

In answer to Myles, I think talk is cheap, writing letters does nothing to enhance safety and is totally reactionary.

 

Every day I see mountain bikers riding against the traffic on Rhodes Drive in the Hohenort to Kirstenbosch section. I hope I never see the day when one gets hit by an oncoming car. But if I do, that will be the day we see action as apparently that is part of the Constantia MTB Greenbelts route. I fail to understand how breaking the law like that can be condoned on an official route.

As with most companies, they need to communicate their strategies and plans more effectively with the members, not just at some dingy AGM in the back of a mall.

[Hairy]

If the PPA would disclose what their agenda and plans is to tackle the safety issue, it would much easier to stick the the agenda on hand, and perhaps even help rather than to speculate.

please see Myles Post lower down from your post at 12:00pm

[andydude]

Guys common, are you saying these numbers in the budget are completely wrong?

 

Only 5% of project costs went to MTB! Now does that not destroy the argument that PPA is now a MTB club?

 

And furthermore, PPA is a public benefit organisation for CYCLING! Not road, mtb or whatever, but all cycling.

 

I'm not saying they are great, but they do seem to follow their mandate, which also includes being financially conservative. Note that I don't necessarily agree. Just stating facts.

 

[Icycling]

Guys common, are you saying these numbers in the budget are completely wrong?

 

Only 5% of project costs went to MTB! Now does that not destroy the argument that PPA is now a MTB club?

 

And furthermore, PPA is a public benefit organisation for CYCLING! Not road, mtb or whatever, but all cycling.

 

I'm not saying they are great, but they do seem to follow their mandate, which also includes being financially conservative. Note that I don't necessarily agree. Just stating facts.

 

According to this budget Road cycling has not been allocated anything! Safe cycling may also include keeping the mountain safe. Commuting can be done on or off road.

 

I think this is a very vague budget and only reflects the project funding. Not how staff allocate their time and to which disciplines / office cost etc.

 

I am a road cyclist and a track cyclist. As a track cyclist I am not going to complain that PPA spends very little on track cycling - yes the do spend a bit - "charity" spent money I / track cycling is very grateful and I don't believe the charity spent has much % impact on the PPA budget.

 

As a road cyclist however seeing how little is been done for road cycling (where the excess money comes from) and knowing how much is been spent (Charity) on MTB cycling - I do find this very aggravating. Especially when road cycling still require a lot of investment. Road cyclist need to train on road which are safe and then like to participate in road events - they also need a far fuller calendar than PPA has at the moment.

 

As an exercise in any business to make a success is it not important to know how your income is earned and then how it is spent. Surely my requests for detail income and expense accounts should be the norm and not even a request. This would require the Cycle tour Trust to explain how much the make / loose from each of their event. Double century road cycling event, the MTB cycle tour challenge, The Cape Town road cycling tour and any other events they may host. Then 50 % of these figures (50% goes to Rotary) can be allocated to the disciples on cycling as income.

 

Surely members should want to know this info. Then how the income is cut up and spent the all the members can have a far fairer approach?

[Patchelicious]

According to this budget Road cycling has not been allocated anything! Safe cycling may also include keeping the mountain safe. Commuting can be done on or off road.

 

I think this is a very vague budget and only reflects the project funding. Not how staff allocate their time and to which disciplines / office cost etc.

 

I am a road cyclist and a track cyclist. As a track cyclist I am not going to complain that PPA spends very little on track cycling - yes the do spend a bit - "charity" spent money I / track cycling is very grateful and I don't believe the charity spent has much % impact on the PPA budget.

 

As a road cyclist however seeing how little is been done for road cycling (where the excess money comes from) and knowing how much is been spent (Charity) on MTB cycling - I do find this very aggravating. Especially when road cycling still require a lot of investment. Road cyclist need to train on road which are safe and then like to participate in in road events - they also need a far fuller calendar than PPA has at the moment.

 

As an exercise in any business to make a success is it not important to know how your income is earned and then how it is spent. Surely my requests for detail income and expense accounts should be the norm and not even a request. This would require the Cycle tour Trust to explain how much the make / loose from each of their event. Double century road cycling event, the MTB cycle tour challenge, The Cape Town road cycling tour and any other events they may host. Then 50 % of these figures (50% goes to Rotary) can be allocated to the disciples on cycling as income.

 

Surely members should want to know this info. Then how the income is cut up and spent the all the members can have a far fairer approach?

What you are asking for is by no means too much, its the bare minimum actually.

 

If I presented a R3m budget with 9 line items on it, our share holders would literally laugh at me, then tell me to sod off. 

[andydude]

According to this budget Road cycling has not been allocated anything! Safe cycling may also include keeping the mountain safe. Commuting can be done on or off road.

 

I think this is a very vague budget and only reflects the project funding. Not how staff allocate their time and to which disciplines / office cost etc.

 

I am a road cyclist and a track cyclist. As a track cyclist I am not going to complain that PPA spends very little on track cycling - yes the do spend a bit - "charity" spent money I / track cycling is very grateful and I don't believe the charity spent has much % impact on the PPA budget.

 

As a road cyclist however seeing how little is been done for road cycling (where the excess money comes from) and knowing how much is been spent (Charity) on MTB cycling - I do find this very aggravating. Especially when road cycling still require a lot of investment. Road cyclist need to train on road which are safe and then like to participate in in road events - they also need a far fuller calendar than PPA has at the moment.

 

As an exercise in any business to make a success is it not important to know how your income is earned and then how it is spent. Surely my requests for detail income and expense accounts should be the norm and not even a request. This would require the Cycle tour Trust to explain how much the make / loose from each of their event. Double century road cycling event, the MTB cycle tour challenge, The Cape Town road cycling tour and any other events they may host. Then 50 % of these figures (50% goes to Rotary) can be allocated to the disciples on cycling as income.

 

Surely members should want to know this info. Then how the income is cut up and spent the all the members can have a far fairer approach?

 

I like your insights, but there seems to be more to it?

 

Take your argument that safe cycling also helps MTB. I'm sure a small part does cover MTB, but surely safe cycling would be mostly for road commuters and cyclists? Thinking about the 1.5m gap initiative, handing out helmets and reflective clothing, school's safe cycling initiative, etcetera. Therefore I still do not agree that a lot of funding goes to MTB. But as you say, we probably need more numbers.

 

You also don't mention that the PPA also subsidizes road events? Is that true?

 

You other suggestions are very good, and I would also like a much more detailed breakdown of their expenses and events.

 

Maybe if you don't mind we can meet and discuss some of the issues? It would be great to pick your mind! You are PW?! I'll send a pm.

[Icycling]

What you are asking for is by no means too much, its the bare minimum actually.

 

If I presented a R3m budget with 9 line items on it, our share holders would literally laugh at me, then tell me to sod off. 

When they keep the members informed properly - then maybe my comments / attitude towards PPA would change. I have been suggesting this for years. Lets admit that it's as much about the money as the cycling that make PPA seem successful. We get a cycling calendar - relatively detailed - why not a completely open budget. I know the requires co operation from the events office (Cycle Tour trust) but surely PPA can insist on this co- operation?

 

I cannot recall how race tec profits / losses shown - at PPA or Events office / who now owns race tec etc.

[Patchelicious]

I like your insights, but there seems to be more to it?

 

Take your argument that safe cycling also helps MTB. I'm sure a small part does cover MTB, but surely safe cycling would be mostly for road commuters and cyclists? Thinking about the 1.5m gap initiative, handing out helmets and reflective clothing, school's safe cycling initiative, etcetera. Therefore I still do not agree that a lot of funding goes to MTB. But as you say, we probably need more numbers.

 

You also don't mention that the PPA also subsidizes road events? Is that true?

 

You other suggestions are very good, and I would also like a much more detailed breakdown of their expenses and events.

 

Maybe if you don't mind we can meet and discuss some of the issues? It would be great to pick your mind! You are PW?! I'll send a pm.

If they showed us, nobody would need speculate......

 

Edit, just to be clear, I am less worried about where the money is going than what they are actually doing to promote safe cycling and increasing the chances of surviving a coffee ride.

 

This thread is about, exactly as the title suggests, "What is the PPA doing?" about cycling safety. Secondary to this, what can they do better to improve cycling safety.

[Wannabe]

Patch, I'm starting to like you.   

[Pure Savage]

When they keep the members informed properly - then maybe my comments / attitude towards PPA would change. I have been suggesting this for years. Lets admit that it's as much about the money as the cycling that make PPA seem successful. We get a cycling calendar - relatively detailed - why not a completely open budget. I know the requires co operation from the events office (Cycle Tour trust) but surely PPA can insist on this co- operation?

 

I cannot recall how race tec profits / losses shown - at PPA or Events office / who now owns race tec etc.

Racetec profits are 100% distributed to CTCTT and then split 50/50 to PPA/Rotary.

[Icycling]

Racetec profits are 100% distributed to CTCTT and then split 50/50 to PPA/Rotary.

Yup so these would need to be broken down in profits and losses of the different disciplines of cycling which racetec services. Thus to show a true reflection on what brings money into PPA and how much.

 

Are this in my opinion needs to happen to avoid the speculation or assumptions of what brings money into the PPA - surely this is important?

[Hairy]

would be interesting to see how accurate would racetec figures be RE riders who ride on a temp license on the day. with a temp you do not get timed, but do pay a fee to the various cycling bodies?

 

also on an event (be it road or mtb) what the split is percentage wise of PPA members vs Temp members at the events.

 

the Temp members could be considered a direct market to tap into as they are already showing interest by participating at an event.

[Pure Savage]

Yup so these would need to be broken down in profits and losses of the different disciplines of cycling which racetec services. Thus to show a true reflection on what brings money into PPA and how much.

 

Are this in my opinion needs to happen to avoid the speculation or assumptions of what brings money into the PPA - surely this is important?

Problem is that Racetec does not only service cycling, it does running events, up country events etc. The amount of detail would not be worth the end result.

[Pure Savage]

would be interesting to see how accurate would racetec figures be RE riders who ride on a temp license on the day. with a temp you do not get timed, but do pay a fee to the various cycling bodies?

 

also on an event (be it road or mtb) what the split is percentage wise of PPA members vs Temp members at the events.

 

the Temp members could be considered a direct market to tap into as they are already showing interest by participating at an event.

These numbers were discussed at the AGM.

[Icycling]

Problem is that Racetec does not only service cycling, it does running events, up country events etc. The amount of detail would not be worth the end result.

I disagree - all the more to have a full accurate analysis - for all we know the running events maybe running at a loss and thus PPA is sponsoring 50% of the loss.

 

It would be nice to know how much PPA makes / losses by on and off road events up country.