carbon29er Posted February 21, 2017 Share That is great, but how do you objectively compare the "difficulty" of race x with the cycle tour or 94.7. How you account for heat & wind & route & road conditions etc in your beta will always have an element of subjectivity as it is not something that can be exactly measured.And conditions are ignored. The linear regression to determine beta and adjusted time takes the finishing time of a sample of riders who raced this race and compares them as individuals to the time they took to complete the Argus or the 94.7. The assumption is, and it is statistically valid, that the same rider will perform at the same level across various races. Done for multiple riders it becomes more accurate. So conditions are irrelevant as the winners time is adjusted to reflect the pool against another known event pool. I'll check up on beta calculation so I don't BS you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon29er Posted February 21, 2017 Share Do PPA events get preferential betas?What events? No, it is the pool of riders and the beta is calculated as I'll get back to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pure Savage Posted February 21, 2017 Share Do PPA events get preferential betas?Nope. Rumour has it PPA does not even decide the Beta's... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon29er Posted February 21, 2017 Share Nope. Rumour has it PPA does not even decide the Beta's...Beta is not man generated as far as I understand. The process was set in place years ago. Nothing has changed for a while. I'll chat to RaceTec when I get a chance. Reality is when you get to some smaller races and the groups get joined on the start line, the bulk of the moved up group gets shelled when the tough get going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchelicious Posted February 21, 2017 Share Nope. Rumour has it PPA does not even decide the Beta's...So you are stating something as definitive based on rumour. ???????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchelicious Posted February 21, 2017 Share Beta is not man generated as far as I understand. The process was set in place years ago. Nothing has changed for a while. I'll chat to RaceTec when I get a chance. Reality is when you get to some smaller races and the groups get joined on the start line, the bulk of the moved up group gets shelled when the tough get going.Thanks for your factual input, will wait for your interaction with them. Edited February 21, 2017 by Patchelicious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skubarra Posted February 21, 2017 Share The assumption is, and it is statistically valid, that the same rider will perform at the same level across various races. Done for multiple riders it becomes more accurate. Thanks, I understand. I get that you can only work with what you have ie a bunch of finishing times that is a single proxy for determining a whole range of conditions. On average it should be ok, but imo it is a bit of a crude assumption which is why we see anomalies on some race seedings. Its obvious I don't quite share other hubbers faith in the near flawlessness of the system but as you said in your first post it is the best system we have. If you do enough races your seeding will reflect your ability. Pure Savage 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pure Savage Posted February 21, 2017 Share So you are stating something as definitive based on rumour. As always The beta is calculated and no manual input, therefore nobody "decides" on a Beta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pure Savage Posted February 21, 2017 Share Beta is not man generated as far as I understand. The process was set in place years ago. Nothing has changed for a while. I'll chat to RaceTec when I get a chance. Reality is when you get to some smaller races and the groups get joined on the start line, the bulk of the moved up group gets shelled when the tough get going. Post 10 is the process they use. But I agree with the guys at Racetec when they say, start where you want, put a climb in the first 5km and the climb will seed the field for you. The best example of this is the Knysna Cycle tour. That strava flyby is amazing to watch. frikkiemossel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon29er Posted February 21, 2017 Share I had a racing licence once. No idea why. I started in the race with the Elites, David George said he'd look after me. That lasted until the 1st corner before we even hit the main road. Then turned right up a 5km climb to Harkerville. At least I can say I was on the start line with them. But that is all. Vetplant and Pure Savage 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchelicious Posted February 21, 2017 Share I had a racing licence once. No idea why. I started in the race with the Elites, David George said he'd look after me. That lasted until the 1st corner before we even hit the main road. Then turned right up a 5km climb to Harkerville. At least I can say I was on the start line with them. But that is all.You should have hung out more with him, wouldn't have missed those Sub 3s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pure Savage Posted February 21, 2017 Share You should have hung out more with him, wouldn't have missed those Sub 3s[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Dale Posted February 21, 2017 Share You should have hung out more with him, wouldn't have missed those Sub 3s http://www.quickmeme.com/img/a2/a2e2c23b6669a334364c83e892bdc9649deeec1aa530b29ce4b6f73f37539d0d.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchelicious Posted February 21, 2017 Share http://www.quickmeme.com/img/a2/a2e2c23b6669a334364c83e892bdc9649deeec1aa530b29ce4b6f73f37539d0d.jpgFaceplam yourself really hard several times, while repeating: "I must know when Patch is being sacarstic" over and over out loud. bmw1za, C1 Fracture, 'Kaze Pete and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C1 Fracture Posted February 23, 2017 Share Thanks for your views Hubbers. Guess I'll have to up my race game, suffer a little more and results will get better, eventually... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dee_biker Posted February 23, 2017 Share Hello hubbers ... Happy commenting Despite having a "mysterious algorithm", after being a PPA member for years now, I always end up in the right group in PPA races. My advice:* Choose the correct races for seeding: Burger, One Tonner, Argus* For one year, train hard, and race in all of these, each one will have your seeding going down. I moved up from P to H in one year, and then from H to C in another. Just by doing my local races and making sure you are strong enough to finish in the top 10% in your bunch. You will get to your target sooner than you think, despite the "unfair" Beta's. Edited February 23, 2017 by dee_biker C1 Fracture 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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