2017 UCI Road World Champs Bergen 16-24 September

[Gen]

The question is not "would he have won it if he was riding for SKY?",no one can answer that for sure", the question is "Would YOU be more sceptical of his performance if he rode for SKY". Its hypothetical.

 

So yes its straight forward, if you want to answers it.

Okay I'll play with..No..

 

its strange that you only want a yes or no answer as you are always the one that says if you say something like that you need to give reason why...[emoji23] [emoji6]

 

 

 

[emoji111]

 

 

 

 

 

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[Gen]

Care for a dance?

 

 

av.png

Hey I didn't start the hypothetical question.. I just expanded on the hypothetical scenarios [emoji6]

 

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[J Wakefield]

Stop deflecting, I am not asking about Kwaitoski, he hasn't won 3 world champs in a row.

 

Just to be clear. I am NOT questioning Sagan or SKY, I am questioning the selective sceptics amongst US Hubbers and Twitts. This is based on an observation that rider popularity seems to have direct relation to scepticism. Edit: I myself am a massive Sagan fan, just for transparency.

 

My question is very straight forward.

 

If Sagan was riding for SKY, would you question his performances MORE than you do now? Its a yes no answer.

 

I wouldnt - to me it doesn't matter what team a rider rides for. If I have a view on a rider, his kit doesn't matter. 

[Patchelicious]

Okay I'll play with..No..

 

its strange that you only want a yes or no answer as you are always the one that says if you say something like that you need to give reason why...[emoji23] [emoji6]

 

 

 

[emoji111]

 

 

 

 

 

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You can give yes and no answers AND give a reason. 

 

Actually, to that point, why did you say "NO"?

[Fat Boab]

I wouldnt - to me it doesn't matter what team a rider rides for. If I have a view on a rider, his kit doesn't matter. 

 

Unless they ride for Astana.......

[Gen]

You can give yes and no answers AND give a reason.

 

Actually, to that point, why did you say "NO"?

Because it was a yes or no answer apparently [emoji6]

 

Edit..

 

Because I like him and will like him no matter where he rides.

 

 

 

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[Patchelicious]

I wouldnt - to me it doesn't matter what team a rider rides for. If I have a view on a rider, his kit doesn't matter. 

I agree with you 100%, thats half my point. e.g. I have a view that Valverde is dirty, no matter where he is riding.

 

The other is, we seem to have the same unchangeable views on teams too.

 

So what I was getting at is, if you mix those two up, do we sit with an oil and water situation?

 

e.g. another example just to make a point, not to argue the merits on the example.....

 

Lots of the Hub believes that Louis is clean. (opinion bias because we are understandably patriotic)

 

Lots of the Hub believe that Asatana is a dirty team.

 

So what happens to our opinions on both team and rider, if say, Louis goes to Astana and starts winning? Its just an exercise in our opinion bias. Nothing more.

[shaper]

You say it's a straight forward question..but it isn't actually. .

 

Ifs and buts. .2 very different teams with 2 very different objectives during the year.. so if Sagan was riding for SKY would he even be able to contest WC after a long year focusing on getting their GC guy on the top step of the podium..so one could say if Sagan was riding for SKY he quite possibly wouldn't have any WC wins?

 

None of the Sky guys end up doing well at WC (Kwaitoski won WC riding while still at QS)

 

So it's not a straight forward question actually cause you don't know what his results would've been riding for Sky...

 

The actual fact that the Sky riders don't do well at WC is perhaps a reason why people shouldn't be asking the questions of them..all the time...mmm I think I just said something nice about Sky.

 

 

 

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Sky is a private enterprise and not a national team, their focus is the TdF, everything else is secondary and they do not give a damn about the WC, so they will exhaust their riders in pursuit of their goals during the season.... if their riders happens to do well at the Worlds.... then am sure Sky will be thinking "We can push them harder as they left some in the tank!"

 

And is why none of the Sky riders do well

[Fat Boab]

I agree with you 100%, thats half my point. e.g. I have a view that Valverde is dirty, no matter where he is riding.

 

The other is, we seem to have the same unchangeable views on teams too.

 

So what I was getting at is, if you mix those two up, do we sit with an oil and water situation?

 

e.g. another example just to make a point, not to argue the merits on the example.....

 

Lots of the Hub believes that Louis is clean. (opinion bias because we are understandably patriotic)

 

Lots of the Hub believe that Asatana is a dirty team.

 

So what happens to our opinions on both team and rider, if say, Louis goes to Astana and starts winning? Its just an exercise in our opinion bias. Nothing more.

 

Louis can't be clean. By now, he must be addicted to tubby glue......  

[J Wakefield]

Unless they ride for Astana.......

 

Astana are no different to any other Tour team. Just cause Vino managers it, that is totally irrelevant. If you look at any of say for example: QS / Sky / Astana / Katusha / Cannondale / Dimension Data there are staff with a black cloud over their past in important positions. 

 

 

[Patchelicious]

http://media3.giphy.com/media/CzqaMnNuBhaNO/giphy.gif

Hey sies man, I am asking a real question. Dispelling me as troll in an attempt to avoid questions around favouritism is not cool

[Gen]

Sky is a private enterprise and not a national team, their focus is the TdF, everything else is secondary and they do not give a damn about the WC, so they will exhaust their riders in pursuit of their goals during the season.... if their riders happens to do well at the Worlds.... then am sure Sky will be thinking "We can push them harder as they left some in the tank!"

 

And is why none of the Sky riders do well

[emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23] you said it better than what I ever could've [emoji122][emoji122]

 

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[Patchelicious]

Astana are no different to any other Tour team. Just cause Vino managers it, that is totally irrelevant. If you look at any of say for example: QS / Sky / Astana / Katusha / Cannondale / Dimension Data there are staff with a black cloud over their past in important positions. 

 

 

[J Wakefield]

Sky is a private enterprise and not a national team, their focus is the TdF, everything else is secondary and they do not give a damn about the WC, so they will exhaust their riders in pursuit of their goals during the season.... if their riders happens to do well at the Worlds.... then am sure Sky will be thinking "We can push them harder as they left some in the tank!"

 

And is why none of the Sky riders do well

 

Sky have more than enough riders from different Nations to send to Worlds. riders who don't go to TDF can focus on Worlds and even those riders can also focus on worlds. Worlds is big for riders, a win or possum at worlds adds a whole lot of those Euro things onto your contract for the next year.

[J Wakefield]

 

World Tour - forgot the Tour. Only difference is they are part of the what I call "Super" World Tour teams due to budget / riders and infrastructure. 

[Patchelicious]

Ok, I think my point is getting lost. My comments were about our various personal opinions on teams and riders and how we often contradict ourselves based on our own opinions. I was not debating the reasons why we arrived at those personal opinions in the first place.... thats a whole different discussion. 

 

Nevermind, obviously not the right place for that discussion then... Will bring it up on the next "I hate some team" thread again