Known merchants accepting Bitcoin?

[Chingy182]

Hi Hubbers

 

Does anyone know if there are any local or international bike merchants that accept bitcoin as payment?

 

Bitcoin would also save you a ton of money in currency exchange when shipping from abroad, instant transfer and clearance of funds, etc. 

 

I would love if Chris Willemse Cycles can start accepting bitcoin through a payfast account like Takealot does.

 

There are a few other online platforms in SA that have started to accept bitcoin as payment too.

[GrahamS2]

I doubt it. There are implications for SARB reporting requirements if you accept BTC for cross border transactions. It's a hornets nest not many retailers are willing to kick.

[Squier]

Here's a list of all retailers in SA that accept Bitcoin as payment. No bike shops, but a few bike related retailers:

 

http://az.co.za/news/bitcoin-accepting-businesses-in-south-africa/

[FrikkieMeyer87]

Payfast makes it so easy to accept bitcoin as a merchant. You literally just tick a box saying that you want to accept it, and voila.

[Chingy182]

Here's a list of all retailers in SA that accept Bitcoin as payment. No bike shops, but a few bike related retailers:

 

http://az.co.za/news/bitcoin-accepting-businesses-in-south-africa/

Thanks for this.

 

I think this emphasizes the point for a local bike shop to enter the bitcoin market.

They still receive Rand into their account for the product sold, but you have the convenience of using bitcoin to buy

[Chingy182]

Payfast makes it so easy to accept bitcoin as a merchant. You literally just tick a box saying that you want to accept it, and voila.

Exactly.

 

Maybe if there is enough community interest in this, then this could be put towards a place like CWC for consideration.

[NicoBoshoff]

So what is the CGT implications for a retailer.  Let's say BTC grows whilst in your possession as recipient retailer, but you never bought it, just accepted it as tender, and you then convert to cash.  Surely that's a Capital Gains.  Suppose it's still a win, since it'll just be charged on the growth since receipt, and not the initial purchase, right?

 

But now, what about the purchaser - your customer.  Should they not have paid CGT at the point of using it to buy goods, and thereby effectively converting it to a cash-equivalent?

[NicoBoshoff]

Thanks for this.

 

I think this emphasizes the point for a local bike shop to enter the bitcoin market.

They still receive Rand into their account for the product sold, but you have the convenience of using bitcoin to buy

Ok, I think that answers my first question, but should you, the purchaser not be paying CGT on the BTC used for the purchase, and if so, does that not effectively make the product more expensive to the tune of whatever CGT may be?

[Chingy182]

Ok, I think that answers my first question, but should you, the purchaser not be paying CGT on the BTC used for the purchase, and if so, does that not effectively make the product more expensive to the tune of whatever CGT may be?

I'm not the right person to be answering this, but bitcoin transactions are anonymous and paying through payfast there is no triggering of CGT.

 

People I have spoken to who regularly buy on Takealot have not yet paid any CGT on purchases. And these are people who started buying bitcoin at R100 and now it's gong around R90 000.

 

Maybe SA tax law has not caught on to this loop in the system yet, but if you were to register on Luno.co.za then you are required to provide your Tax number to register and whenever you try to SELL your bitcoin for Rand (paid into your bank account) then that will trigger CGT based on the "profit" you made based on what value bitcoin was at the time of your initial investment 

[NicoBoshoff]

I'm not the right person to be answering this, but bitcoin transactions are anonymous and paying through payfast there is no triggering of CGT.

 

People I have spoken to who regularly buy on Takealot have not yet paid any CGT on purchases. And these are people who started buying bitcoin at R100 and now it's gong around R90 000.

 

Maybe SA tax law has not caught on to this loop in the system yet, but if you were to register on Luno.co.za then you are required to provide your Tax number to register and whenever you try to SELL your bitcoin for Rand (paid into your bank account) then that will trigger CGT based on the "profit" you made based on what value bitcoin was at the time of your initial investment 

I'm pretty sure using your BTC to purchase goods will be deemed to trigger a CG event and will have to be declared as such by the purchaser. 

[bikebloke]

this thread is starting to sound like one of those pop-up ads for why you should invest in bitcoin(or whatever)  

[Organic]

1. should you, the purchaser not be paying CGT on the BTC used for the purchase, and if so,

2. does that not effectively make the product more expensive to the tune of whatever CGT may be?

Almost certainly yes on 1. 

On 2: Yes, but you'd have to pay CGT if sold your bitcoins and converted back to rand anyway, so you're not really losing anything.

 

Note that there is an exemption of (I think - don't quote me) R40000 / year on capital gains, so unless you spent quite a lot (and remember it's only the gain, not the actual amount you spend), you'd probably come in under that level.

 

Of course, paying CGT assumes that the value of bitcoins is rising, which is far from certain.

 

I'm not the right person to be answering this, but bitcoin transactions are anonymous and paying through payfast there is no triggering of CGT.

 

Bitcoin is not really anonymous (https://bitcoin.org/en/you-need-to-know).  All transactions are public.  While the identity of the current owner may not be known (if, for example, your friend gave you the bitcoins), but there's a chain of ownership that starts with a purchaser or ends with a seller (miners are another issue). 

 

When you sell those bitcoins, you're either going to get money (in Rands) or goods (as in the case of Takealot) out, and a bank account number or name and address is going to be attached to that.  There are ways around some of these issues, but they're just as illegal as dodgy cash transactions that are designed to avoid tax.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Correct, you get up to R 40,000 allowance on capital gains before you start having to pay tax on them. 

 

Then, 40% of the taxable gain is included in your income. Which, if you're at the highest tax bracket of 45%, means that your gain is taxed at 18%. 

 

So in essence, any gain over R 40k per year is taxed at 18% MAX. 

 

Also - you only trigger a gain on the portion of the funds that you redeem ie if you have R1m worth of BTC but you only utilise R 100k, then your gain is calculated proportionately ie 10% of the amount you gained over that period of time. 

[Chingy182]

So I'm going to buy something on Takealot today and see if any CGT gets triggered...

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

So I'm going to buy something on Takealot today and see if any CGT gets triggered...

You'll have to declare it yourself, dude. They won't do it for you. They MAY issue you with a tax certificate, but I dunno if they will. If they do, great. You can declare teh transaction as a capital gain in your tax return with the tax cert they give you. If not, you have to manually declare it as a capital gain and submit the purchase & sale invoices etc. 

[Rob_Lions]

I know that bikemob accepts bitcoins payments, they use coinbase as the payment gateway. (Www.bikemob.co.za)

 

On a side-note you can also book holidays/flights through expedia.com they also use coinbase as a payment gateway