Would you pay to ride the Spruit

[ByronH]

Something is seriously wrong because the reality of the situation is that the recent attacks have all occurred within the boundaries of the "Johannesburg Botanical Gardens" which is a "fenced" area with restricted access times and is "patrolled" by a private security company which I assume is employed by City Parks. This is about as good as one can hope for and better than we have or can hope to achieve anywhere else along the entire length of the Spruit. I don't have an explanation as to why this secured area has become a hot spot but would welcome some discussion. Any ideas?      

 

I think the proximity of this hotspot to Melville Koppies, Marks Park and West Park Cemetery makes it a prime target. There are lots of open spaces in the Koppies and Cemetery for belongings to be sorted and dumped. And Marks Park can be a ghost town at times... especially early mornings...

 

In my opinion, 

[Patchelicious]

How many of us have not made contributions to the SpruitFairies yet use the spruit trails? Same principle applies here, nobody is angry if you don’t.

 

I think this will be the same, pay if you want/can. But if you ride a bicycle for fun, chances are very high that you could afford to contribute a small monthly amount to a fund.

Edited January 12, 2018 by Patchelicious

[GrahamS2]

Rather pool your funds and hire Executive Outcomes to solve the current problem. Underberg farmers took this approach with cattle thieves and word spread very quickly that cows in that area were best left alone.

[FrikkieMeyer87]

I saw some posts on Facebook about the recent attack. Apparently the victim managed to keep a souvenir in the form of the perps thumb which he, as far as I understand, bit off? What a flipping champion!

 

These attacks on cyclists, both on the road and the mountain really grinds my gears. I love this country but it can be a real sh*thole sometimes. I just spent two weeks in New Zealand, one of which I was in Rotorua which is like MTB heaven and attacks on cyclists are unheard of. People don't even understand the concept of why someone would take your bike if it does not belong to them.

Edited January 12, 2018 by FrikkieMeyer87

[CraigCCW]

Unfortunately the only way to get security in this country is to pay for it, we simply cannot rely on the public servants whose salaries we pay to do our security for us.

[Li Mu Bai]

Paying to use the spruit wont keep the muggers/vagrants away. Provide security every 100m?

Edited January 12, 2018 by Li Mu Bai

[Patchelicious]

Paying to use the spruit wont keep the muggers/vagrants away. Provide security every 100m?

What do you propose?

[coppi]

You cannot remove the element of crime, even with security guards ( imo too expensive and not feasible anyway )

 

Don't ride alone as you are totally exposed.......

[Patchelicious]

You cannot remove the element of crime, even with security guards ( imo too expensive and not feasible anyway )

 

Don't ride alone as you are totally exposed.......

"Remove" is absolute, will never happen. We need to "reduce"

 

What about a patrol roster? Neighbourhood watch type scenario?

[Scooterza]

I would happily pay an annual or monthly membership towards security - maybe with some number board or something to identify - but please please please don't ask me to pay for each time I use it.. I like to dip in and out at all times of the day.. just visiting the access point and stamping my card or paying my money would ruin it for me.

 

I think you would get reasonable support with a number of big signboards that says 'please buy your number to use these trails' posted up and down the spruit.

 

my 2c worth

Agree with this.  I've often thought that I ride the trails but don't pay or help with upkeep which isn't very fair on those that do the work.  It's not that I don't want to - I just don't know who to pay or who is doing the upkeep etc.  I would be happy to pay for security and upkeep so here's a thought - have those little QR codes on boards along the trail.  You can stop, scan the code and pay an amount (and maybe leave it up to the individual as to how much) using Snapscan or zapper or similar.  This is quick, convenient and allows those who can pay to pay and those that cannot (or won't   ) to skip the payment. 

[coppi]

"Remove" is absolute, will never happen. We need to "reduce"

 

What about a patrol roster? Neighbourhood watch type scenario?

Yes I agree that seems better..............

Best way to fight this crime is still to ride in groups imo.............

[Patchelicious]

Yes I agree that seems better..............

Best way to fight this crime is still to ride in groups imo.............

Absolutely, agreed, it is one of the best ways, not always an option though. I think we need to discuss additional ways. 

 

Ride in groups AND.....?

[coppi]

Absolutely, agreed, it is one of the best ways, not always an option though. I think we need to discuss additional ways. 

 

Ride in groups AND.....? learn to bite off fingers   

Edited January 12, 2018 by coppi

[Paddaman]

Absolutely, agreed, it is one of the best ways, not always an option though. I think we need to discuss additional ways. 

 

Ride in groups AND.....?

What has been found is that criminals tend to avoid well maintained and high usage areas.  Being seen is what they want to avoid.  If you can increase community buy in and increase usage (and with it community maintenance days), the opportunistic criminal element will quickly dissolve.  Something like the "broken window approach".  Lawlessness advertises itself by graffiti, litter, urination/defecation in public places ext.  Criminals use the cover of rubble and long grass to evade notice and capture.

 

A good strategy is to partition the spruit up between societal groups, like church youth groups, scouts, voortrekkers, Lions, Rotary schools ext.  Each group becomes responsible for clearing, using and maintaining parts of the spruit for social outreach, nature conservation, education, cross country routes ext.  The bike and running shops and clubs can then pitch-in  with expertise on trails and trail maintenance.  Also fund raising can be done with an regular "Spruit dash/ marathons" where entry fees are used to maintain the spruit. 

 

All paying a fee does is make you feel less guilty about not being involved with the physical (coal front) work of doing something. ie cheque book activism......

[ByronH]

I'm sorry but 'riding in groups' as a defence is simply not good enough. Eventually they will just attack...in groups.

 

Johannesburg City Parks grounds should be safe for a woman, child, little old lady with her maltese to walk alone during sunlight hours... period.

 

I am no security expert, but there are security experts whom can be contracted or consulted with to this end. And if City Parks isnt going to do it, then we as considered citizens and users of the facility should.

[eddy]

What do you propose?

 

Here are some thoughts:

 

We can not remove the Spruit from Johannesburg and transplant it into Nirvana. We live in a world that has never succeeded in eliminating crime. Believing that we can do so on the Spruit is an unrealistic expectation. So what can we realistically do to make it relatively safer?

 

Without changing the nature of the Spruit, it will be very difficult to find a solution.

It is by it's nature a long, thin, mostly unfenced stretch of urban green space that is currently freely accessible along its length. There are roads, footpaths, underpasses, overpasses that criss-cross it and many kilometres of it is open to roads running alongside. Many people, not least pedestrian commuters use it to cross the river on a daily basis.

 

Securing that physically will create a barrier that would require many access points. Building the barriers, patrolling & maintaining the perimeter and manning the access points will be an ongoing cost. Blocking the stormwater drains effectively without damming up or slowing down floodwater, is similarly an engineering challenge with social and financial consequences. These solutions would not be affordable without significant and ongoing Metro funding. Voluntary contributions by (some) users won't cut it.

 

The social and financial cost will be very high and I know that the Metro has greater social needs to provide for. 

 

Even if the area is fenced, patrolled and access is controlled it may at best reduce attacks. The irony is that this last attack happened in the only area of the park that is completely fenced. So making access more difficult for honest people won't have any effect. The skelms will still get in, over the fence, through it, down stormwater drains as they are now doing.

 

So physical means are not viable.

 

We need to look at social means of creating an environment that that is "thug unfriendly".  

 

Except that they can escape down the drain, the reason that spot is being used by the thugs is because it is secluded, is infrequently used and then only by individuals in one or twos. 50m away it is safe as there are dog walkers and larger groups.

 

I believe that the presence of people (particularly those with dogs) is a major contributor to safety  and that the more good people use a space, the less room there is for bad people to move around with impunity. The more people who use the park the greater is the social good the Metro needs to protect and therefore they may be encouraged to patrol/have patrolled. We should thus aim to get more (and different) good people to use it. (edit: See Paddaman's (excellent) post posted at 09:56 whilst I was typing this)

 

The more cyclist who use the park, the bigger the groups, the safer it becomes statistically, although there will still be attacks. 

Edited January 12, 2018 by eddy