Reg Lizard Posted June 10, 2008 Share I recently bought an Ultegra 10spd chain from a well known bikeshop. The chain was not in a sealed box but in a plastic bag and covered with the ussual sticky gu. After fitting the chain on the bike I took out my newly acquired chain measuring tool to meassure it. The tool showed that the chain was between 50-75% worn. I now did about 1300km with the chain and when I measured it last night it showed that it was just under 100% worn. I previously got about 2500-3500km on my dura-ace 10spd chains before I needed to replace them. I lubed this chain exactly the same way in which I did the previous ones. I am now struggling with the following questions:- 1. Was it perhaps not a brand new chain when I bought it, or2. Is it because I am running dura-ace cluster and chain rings with an ultegra chain, or3. Can it be that my chainrings are worn (no signs of this whatsoever- no sharkfins or gear shifting problems) and have worn the new chain quicker. Any advice plse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johan Bornman Posted June 10, 2008 Share Chain measurement tools are crap. The science they're based on is flakey and the only people who still defend them are chain measurement tool salesmen and those who paid R100 for a product that's rubbish. The reason they fluctate so much is because they take their measurements from the rollers, which are floating. If there's dirt in there, they float very little, if they're clean, they float a lot. The only way to determine a chain's health is to measure it. 24 links should measure exactly 12 inches and measured across the sideplate. In a nutshell: if a chain has elongated by 1%, it should be replaced. If it has elongated by 2%, it has already destroyed your cassette. 1% equates to 1/16th of an inch. Thus, a worn chain will measure 12 inches and 1/16th. Don't bother converting this to metric measurements. Just get an imperial steel ruler that's longer than 12 inches. Plenty has been written about the proper technique for measuring chains. Do a quick search. Unfortunately you'll have to wade through a lot of vitriol and religion to get to the truth. Johan Bornman2008-06-10 09:18:14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#Pete# Posted June 10, 2008 Share 24 links should measure exactly 12 inches and measured across the sideplate. Cool, I don't even need a ruler to measure this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reg Lizard Posted June 12, 2008 Share Chain measurement tools are crap. The science they're based on is flakey and the only people who still defend them are chain measurement tool salesmen and those who paid R100 for a product that's rubbish. The reason they fluctate so much is because they take their measurements from the rollers' date=' which are floating. If there's dirt in there, they float very little, if they're clean, they float a lot. The only way to determine a chain's health is to measure it. 24 links should measure exactly 12 inches and measured across the sideplate. In a nutshell: if a chain has elongated by 1%, it should be replaced. If it has elongated by 2%, it has already destroyed your cassette. 1% equates to 1/16th of an inch. Thus, a worn chain will measure 12 inches and 1/16th. Don't bother converting this to metric measurements. Just get an imperial steel ruler that's longer than 12 inches. Plenty has been written about the proper technique for measuring chains. Do a quick search. Unfortunately you'll have to wade through a lot of vitriol and religion to get to the truth. [/quote'] Johan Bornman: You are right these chain measurement tools are crap. Measured the 24 links last night with an steel inch ruler and whala it measures slightly more than 12 inches still some way to go before the 12 and 1/16th. Thanx for the advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndreZA Posted June 12, 2008 Share 24 links should measure exactly 12 inches and measured across the sideplate. Cool' date=' I don't even need a ruler to measure this.[/quote'] Just don't get cought. People go to jail for that kind of stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndreZA Posted June 12, 2008 Share I made this according to JB's instructions. It's the only guide I use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reg Lizard Posted June 12, 2008 Share I made this according to JB's instructions. It's the only guide I use. Para: from where I am sitting it looks like your chain is shrinking not elongating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndreZA Posted June 12, 2008 Share Para: from where I am sitting it looks like your chain is shrinking not elongating Sit somewhere else, it's obstructing your view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reg Lizard Posted June 12, 2008 Share Tried that and turned the laptop upside down- still looks the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyper7 Posted June 12, 2008 Share 24 links should measure exactly 12 inches and measured across the sideplate. Cool' date=' I don't even need a ruler to measure this.[/quote'] +100 !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eliminator Posted June 13, 2008 Share What do you use to measure 12 inches? Only thing I can think of is my wife's sewing tape measure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eliminator Posted June 13, 2008 Share Mampara, I like your pictures... They say a thousand words, but where can I get an "Imperial steel ruler that's longer than 12 inches."? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndreZA Posted June 13, 2008 Share What do you use to measure 12 inches? Only thing I can think of is my wife's sewing tape measure. I just thought you were going to say somthing else. Go to an art or hardware store and get a steel 300mm ruler for about R30. But it must have inches on aswell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmarc Posted June 13, 2008 Share I agree with the chain mesuring tool comment "it's all a bunch of crap" the chain tool will always tell you to replace your chain because they were designed to sell chains, so measurement is the most accurate method. 1% rule seems extreme but consider 1% over the entire length of a 54 link chain (1 link = 1") this would be just over 1/2" or 13.716mm. With this amount of extra length would affect gear changing an the rear mech "B" screw would have to be set at max, becuase your jockey pulleys would be bumping against the cluster when riding. One must also be carefull of LBS telling you to replace clusters and chainrings when replacing a chain. always inspect the profile of the teeth against a new gear before replacing. 9 times out of 10 ther is nothing wrong with the gears (LBS are simply trying to make money) when you consider the materials that clusters are made from (titanium and ST/ST) it will take many worn chains to wear out a cluster. I recently changed my 9 spd cluster for a different ratio. The old one is approx. 5 years old and when comparing the tooth profile against the new cluster for wear there was absolutly no wear other than faint rubbing marks, so the 5 year old cluster is still in perfect condition.(But then again it is after all a Campag cluster) the chain was also replaced which when hung next to the new chain, the length had increased by approx. 1.2 links (just over 1%) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johan Bornman Posted June 13, 2008 Share Mampara' date=' I like your pictures... They say a thousand words, but where can I get an "Imperial steel ruler that's longer than 12 inches."?[/quote'] I also like those picture, perhaps I'll negotiate a royalty with him so I can use it in my courseware. Finding an imperial steel ruler longer than 12 inches is a bit of a problem. Interestingly, it is illegal to sell imperial measurement devices in South Africa but with then again, it's also illegal to faster than 60kph in suburbian streets. I say longer than 12 inches, because you want another inch or so on there so you can see if the chain is 12 and 1/16th or 12 and 1/18 of an inch long. If it is 1/8th on an inch elongated, you have a 2% elongation and the new chain will now definitely slip and skip on the old cassette. Finding the rule is a bit of a mission, but make it your mission and you'll be rewarded. I have found three so far without looking around too much. In my father's garage I found a fold-out wooden rule that goes to one yard. If I only fold out two sections, it isn't too cumbersome. I have also found a longer steel rule at a garage sale somewhere that was about 600mm long (apologies to imperialists) and marked in inches, I committed sacrilege and cut it off at the 13 inch mark. Now it is really handy. I have also found a Chinese-made square for woodwork, that's slightly longer than 12 inches and calibrated all the way to the end. This was a real treasure, as I now have a 12+ inch rule with a handle. Don't be too fussy about wood vs steel. The former is just as accurate. Only thing is if it gets too thick, you may commit a parallax error, but if you're aware of it, you know how to deal with that. Keep on looking, it'll become your most treasured tool. Oh, I almost forgot to mention. The best rule is one where the zero point is at the edge of the rule. Some plastic and aluminium ones start a little bit of the edge, which is annoying. I like the rest the edge against a pin or sideplace, which leaves me with only one side to worry about.Johan Bornman2008-06-13 01:16:18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johan Bornman Posted June 13, 2008 Share Cut cut cut 1% rule seems extreme but consider 1% over the entire length of a 54 link chain (1 link = 1") this would be just over 1/2" or 13.716mm. With this amount of extra length would affect gear changing an the rear mech "B" screw would have to be set at max' date=' becuase your jockey pulleys would be bumping against the cluster when riding. [/quote'] 1% is not extreme, that's the design. Within that limit the chain does not damage the sprockets and none of the effects you describe happen. One must also be carefull of LBS telling you to replace clusters and chainrings when replacing a chain. always inspect the profile of the teeth against a new gear before replacing. 9 times out of 10 ther is nothing wrong with the gears (LBS are simply trying to make money) when you consider the materials that clusters are made from (titanium and ST/ST) it will take many worn chains to wear out a cluster. And by the way' date=' Titanium is extremely soft compared to carbon steel and isn't a very good material for sprockets. It is used because of the weight-weenie factor. Further, sprockets aren't made of stainless steel, but case-hardened carbon steel. The profiles are exactly the same across the range but as you go up towards Dura Ace or in your case, Record, the method of attachment, cut-outs and spiders change to make them lighter. Also, more expensive clusters are plated with better material, say chrome instead of zinc, but that's purely cosmetic and nothing to do with durability. [/quote'] Inspecting the profile of the teeth will tell you nothing. The most sensible way is to simply keep on replacing the chain until eventually the new chain skips on the old cassette. Looking at the teeth will tell you nothing, even if you are a dentist and used to profiles. I recently changed my 9 spd cluster for a different ratio. The old one is approx. 5 years old and when comparing the tooth profile against the new cluster for wear there was absolutly no wear other than faint rubbing marks' date=' so the 5 year old cluster is still in perfect condition.(But then again it is after all a Campag cluster) the chain was also replaced which when hung next to the new chain, the length had increased by approx. 1.2 links (just over 1%) [/quote'] Telling us that your cluster is five years old and still good is meaningless. Cluster age isn't measured in years but in mileage, with hygiene and chain maintenance factored in. I don't have a unit for this but age it ain't. My aunt Edna has a bicycle in her garage that's 40 years old and the tyres, chain and bearings are still perfect. Johan Bornman2008-06-13 01:29:47 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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