Hunting - yes or no?

[Goodbadugly]

Ahh. More namecalling.

Mature. Very mature.

Any studies on this?

[Odinson]

Ahh. More namecalling.

Mature. Very mature.

Any studies on this?

 

If you want to make a point, make a point. Just saying "wrong" doesn't get anyone anywhere. 

[Goodbadugly]

It not necessary to explain the obvious.

Reductionist wavelength borders on derogatory.

 

Assuming farmers know little or nothing about conservation? Again inflammatory. Crude and derogatory.

 

Thus, will a private game ranch ensure that there is no loss of the fauna and flora biodiversity and ensure that the existing biodiversity is conserved?

Looking at this provokes the question asked. Were you ever involved in farming/conservation other than the internet?

[Chris_]

It not necessary to explain the obvious.

Reductionist wavelength borders on derogatory.

 

Assuming farmers know little or nothing about conservation? Again inflammatory. Crude and derogatory.

 

Thus, will a private game ranch ensure that there is no loss of the fauna and flora biodiversity and ensure that the existing biodiversity is conserved?

Looking at this provokes the question asked. Were you ever involved in farming/conservation other than the internet?

 

The internet is a great resource if you use it correctly. Education is the key to .. probably everything. There is no way to be opinionated - which is a positive trait, if you do not use what is available to you. At the end of the day we live in the age of information.

 

But we obviously cannot all live and breathe every remark we make, from personal experience.

[Odinson]

It not necessary to explain the obvious.

Reductionist wavelength borders on derogatory.

 

Assuming farmers know little or nothing about conservation? Again inflammatory. Crude and derogatory.

 

Thus, will a private game ranch ensure that there is no loss of the fauna and flora biodiversity and ensure that the existing biodiversity is conserved?

Looking at this provokes the question asked. Were you ever involved in farming/conservation other than the internet?

 

And people say that millennials are 'oversensitive snowflakes'. Jeesh. 

 

Whether I am involved in farming/conservation or not does not determine whether I can engage in this discussion or not. By that logic, only politicians can discuss politics, only teachers education and so on and so forth. 

[Chris_]

 

 

Private game ranchers have clear commercial interests and they're not going to empty their pockets to protect plants and animals which have no economic value to them. "If it pays, it stays", right? wrong Game ranchers are motivated by their bottom line. That's why so many dropped traditional agriculture the moment the Stock Theft Act gave them the means to commodify the wildlife on their property - they realised how lucrative it is, among other considerations.  Most farmers also do not have the knowledge, skills or resources to properly ensure conservation efforts. Wrong assumption.

 

 

 

 

 

" Either way by removing yourself from the cycle of mass demand for meat supply, is where we can make an indirect conservation impact." - No. The opposite is true. You are taking away the value of those animals that are hunted. As I said in my OP, if it pays it stays. The days of conserving wildlife for the sake of conservation is gone, unfortunately.

 

 

How so is your take on Odinsons commercial value point 'wrong'. This is even the OP's point. 

[Zatopek]

DJR, I'm not suspending common sense in this discussion. 

 

You seem to be on the same reductionist wavelength as leeubok, but I'll entertain it for a moment. Yes, I agree with you that a hypothetical 1000ha monocropped piece of land will have lower biodiversity than an adjacent 1000ha ranch. 

 

However, we're not discussing hypotheticals about biodiversity levels. The question is whether game ranches contribute to species biodiversity and conservation. Thus, will a private game ranch ensure that there is no loss of the fauna and flora biodiversity and ensure that the existing biodiversity is conserved? I've stated this numerous times, but ~45% of game ranches are mixed use, so the "I'm doing it for conservation" and "Hunters are conservationists" claims ring a bit hollow to me. 

 

Private game ranchers have clear commercial interests and they're not going to empty their pockets to protect plants and animals which have no economic value to them. "If it pays, it stays", right? Game ranchers are motivated by their bottom line. That's why so many dropped traditional agriculture the moment the Stock Theft Act gave them the means to commodify the wildlife on their property - they realised how lucrative it is, among other considerations.  Most farmers also do not have the knowledge, skills or resources to properly ensure conservation efforts. 

 

In the same way that I do not trust McDonalds to have public health in mind if they we're allowed to set our food pyramid, I simply do not trust game ranchers to act in the best interests of wildlife and entrusting them in ensuring that SA's rich biodiversity is conserved. 

It is impossible, no one can guarantee it. Not even in pristine conservation terrain. Sometimes there are a loss, sometimes improvement. the only guarantee is - that there will be constant change.

[Goodbadugly]

How so is your take on Odinsons commercial value point 'wrong'. This is even the OP's point. 

Everything we do (including farming)is not purely based on a commercial point of view. Love is one of them. 

Love makes no sense.

Be it love of your wife, your country or your land.

There are people who love their farms as well. 

[Odinson]

Everything we do (including farming)is not purely based on a commercial point of view. Love is one of them. 

Love makes no sense.

Be it love of your wife, your country or your land.

There are people who love their farms as well. 

 

I don't dispute that. However, that doesn't mean that people often make poor decisions with the best of intentions. Few people in this world do things because they think they're making the wrong decision. 

 

The point remains that game ranches are businesses. Love doesn't put you in the black. When a farmer has to decide between clearing a piece of land for crops/grazing or leaving it (relatively) untouched, because business is a bit slow, what do you think will happen?  

[Zatopek]

I don't dispute that. However, that doesn't mean that people often make poor decisions with the best of intentions. Few people in this world do things because they think they're making the wrong decision. 

 

The point remains that game ranches are businesses. Love doesn't put you in the black. When a farmer has to decide between clearing a piece of land for crops/grazing or leaving it (relatively) untouched, because business is a bit slow, what do you think will happen?  

What would put a farmer in the black? (and your glass full?) (Practical, not philosophical) 

[Patchelicious]

unfortunately if you print the photos and hang them for a week, they will not become biltong

 

Don't be so sure.

 

This is another solution, that granted is some ways off, that could be an alternate option for those who don't like tofu. 

 

http://www.memphismeats.com

Edited October 26, 2018 by Patchelicious

[Chris_]

Don't be so sure.

 

This is another solution, that granted is some ways off, that could be an alternate option for those who don't like tofu. 

 

http://www.memphismeats.com

 

True story. The Impossible Burger too has been a big success

[Odinson]

Don't be so sure.

 

This is another solution, that granted is some ways off, that could be an alternate option for those who don't like tofu. 

 

http://www.memphismeats.com

 

'Cellular agriculture' could be a future solution if it can be both scalable and cheap enough for mass adoption. 

 

It's really the stuff of sci-fi. 

[Odinson]

True story. The Impossible Burger too has been a big success

 

Impossible Burger is still plant-based though. Memphis Meats and the rest will be actual animal cells. 

 

Would it be cannibalism if we biopsy a human, culture and grow their cells and then eat it? In the future you could choose between cultured cow, pig or human burgers. 

[Odinson]

Edit: Off-topic. 

 

Go vegan

Edited October 26, 2018 by Odinson

[SwissVan]

I know you have your tongue in cheek with this, but I do have many a roan, sable, lion, buffalo, elephant, leopard and cheetah trophy photograph. Many were stalked on foot, along the principles of fair-chase (300mm telephoto lens maximum  ), but I have to admit to shooting a few from a vehicle. 

You nearly got a “like”

Unfortunately no half like button