2019 Amashova

[MudLark]

I wonder how many of the people claiming that they only "need" two bottles of water for a 106km ride with 1300m of ascent in 39 degrees Celcius have actually checked the specific gravity of their urine* before and after events.

 

Most of us operate based on our sense of thirst and that's actually not a great way to go about things.The only way to really know how much fluid your body needs in specific circumstances is to measure it - and then to drink accordingly. I suspect very few recreational cyclists really know how much fluid their bodies actually need in specific circumstances.

 

The message that "you don't really need more than X bottles" is a poorly considered one to convey to other cyclists - and even more so the suggestion that if you do, there's something wrong with you or you're poorly conditioned, etc (even though training clearly is a factor).

 

And then we wonder why some people end up in distress - or worse.

 

That said, I also observed the... ummm... bulk... of some of the folk setting out on this ride and having seen the predicted weather and temperatures for the day, did wonder how much cardiac stress they would be experiencing and whether they were being somewhat unwise. Dollars to doughnuts too that very few of them would have had a proper cardio examination somewhere in the last few years. I guess we all kid ourselves a bit though.

 

 

 

*A urine specific gravity refractometer is not all that expensive in the greater scheme of things.

Edited October 22, 2019 by MudLark

[King_Crispy]

I wonder how many of the people claiming that they only "need" two bottles of water for a 106km ride with 1300m of ascent in 39 degrees Celcius have actually checked the specific gravity of their urine* before and after events.

 

Most of us operate based on our sense of thirst and that's actually not a great way to go about things.The only way to really know how much fluid your body needs in specific circumstances is to measure it - and then to drink accordingly. I suspect very few recreational cyclists really know how much fluid their bodies actually need in specific circumstances.

 

The message that "you don't really need more than X bottles" is a poorly considered one to convey to other cyclists - and even more so the suggestion that if you do, there's something wrong with you or you're poorly conditioned, etc (even though training clearly is a factor).

 

And then we wonder why some people end up in distress - or worse.

 

That said, I also observed the... ummm... bulk... of some of the folk setting out on this ride and having seen the predicted weather and temperatures for the day, did wonder how much cardiac stress they would be experiencing and whether they were being somewhat unwise. Dollars to doughnuts too that very few of them would have had a proper cardio examination somewhere in the last few years. I guess we all kid ourselves a bit though.

 

 

 

*A urine specific gravity refractometer is not all that expensive in the greater scheme of things.

The notion of 'x" bottles is because the average bike holds that. The jist of the conversation was around conditioning and NOT needing to stop. If we were to stop and have lunch, a platter of fresh fruit and refill out water bottles, we might as well spend the extra time and pee into a bottle to analyze our urine to see if we are lacking in electrolytes too.

 

No.

 

Train harder, ride faster. That exposes you to less of the elements

[seven]

I wonder how many of the people claiming that they only "need" two bottles of water for a 106km ride with 1300m of ascent in 39 degrees Celcius have actually checked the specific gravity of their urine* before and after events.

 

Most of us operate based on our sense of thirst and that's actually not a great way to go about things.The only way to really know how much fluid your body needs in specific circumstances is to measure it - and then to drink accordingly. I suspect very few recreational cyclists really know how much fluid their bodies actually need in specific circumstances.

 

The message that "you don't really need more than X bottles" is a poorly considered one to convey to other cyclists - and even more so the suggestion that if you do, there's something wrong with you or you're poorly conditioned, etc (even though training clearly is a factor).

 

And then we wonder why some people end up in distress - or worse.

 

That said, I also observed the... ummm... bulk... of some of the folk setting out on this ride and having seen the predicted weather and temperatures for the day, did wonder how much cardiac stress they would be experiencing and whether they were being somewhat unwise. Dollars to doughnuts too that very few of them would have had a proper cardio examination somewhere in the last few years. I guess we all kid ourselves a bit though.

 

 

 

*A urine specific gravity refractometer is not all that expensive in the greater scheme of things.

An easy way to look at water loss is to just weigh oneself before and after a ride. This obviously doesn’t work if one ate during the period.

 

This would give some indication of ones sweat rates during those specific conditions, but it all depends on the conditions on the day.

 

Drinking to thirst is actually the most sensible way to approach hydration during an event..

[Kranswurm]

An easy way to look at water loss is to just weigh oneself before and after a ride. This obviously doesn’t work if one ate during the period.

 

This would give some indication of ones sweat rates during those specific conditions, but it all depends on the conditions on the day.

 

Drinking to thirst is actually the most sensible way to approach hydration during an event..

Or drank...

[MudLark]

 

 

Drinking to thirst is actually the most sensible way to approach hydration during an event..

Though most of us do just that to a greater or lesser degree, the literature on the subject doesn't appear to support this approach. I certainly try to drink certain defined volumes within certain times but it's also far from accurate. But generally I find it works better for me than just going by sense of thirst. That said, some people have a more degraded thirst mechanism (sensibility) than others though. I may be one of them. Not sure.

[MudLark]

 

 

The notion of 'x" bottles is because the average bike holds that. The jist of the conversation was around conditioning and NOT needing to stop. If we were to stop and have lunch, a platter of fresh fruit and refill out water bottles, we might as well spend the extra time and pee into a bottle to analyze our urine to see if we are lacking in electrolytes too.

 

No.

 

Train harder, ride faster. That exposes you to less of the elements

Whether you stop or not is irrelevant to the point I was making, which relates rather to the amount of required fluid intake. Electrolyte balance is important too (obviously) and having a fair sense of your body's requirements in that regard is equally important.

 

Your method for avoiding dehydration (train harder, ride faster) may work for you in the events you enter but I doubt it'll carry anyone through truly arduous cycle challenges (think something like the India Pacific Wheel Race). 'Sides which, not everyone is a racing snake.

[Dicky DQ]

I did the 100 km and only started at 08h15 so I rode the whole ride in the heat.It was especially hot and did not stop at the first wp as I wanted to go to the second one.On arrival there was no water at wp two so had to ride for 30 km without any.I realize that I should be better prepared but if ALL races only cater for the pros then we would not have any of these races at all.The so called weekend warriors actually pay the bills at these events AND the local bike shops too to be honest.I can appreciate the difficult logistics but feel that maybe the starting times could be adopted slightly.I will however do the event again.

But the Pros do not use the water-points. I am not a pro, VERY FAR from it, but I have, in all my years of riding fun-rides only ever once used a water table in a road race. Apart from using one Argust water-point on the 2nd lap. You know to experience them.

 

I would not expect anyone from the 1st 5 or so (maybe more) start batches to stop anywhere along the route. But I mat be wrong.

[Dicky DQ]

Whether you stop or not is irrelevant to the point I was making, which relates rather to the amount of required fluid intake. Electrolyte balance is important too (obviously) and having a fair sense of your body's requirements in that regard is equally important.

 

Your method for avoiding dehydration (train harder, ride faster) may work for you in the events you enter but I doubt it'll carry anyone through truly arduous cycle challenges (think something like the India Pacific Wheel Race). 'Sides which, not everyone is a racing snake.

It is a race, so you train for it. Or do a shorter ride you can cope with. Damn I am 25kg over my racing weight and way unfit, just getting back into cycling after the n'th timer that life got in the way. So on Saturday on a hardish 3.5hr training ride (fasted and only drank 1 bottle of water)

 

I too strain but at least I "lost" 2.5kg. Sunday was an easier 3hr MTB training ride, also fasted and with 1 bottle of water. and lost another KG

 

So effectively "lost" 3.5kg over two days, I have regained 2 of those kg's by this morning so it was all fluid. 

 

Yes it may not be best on the system but it is what it is. 

 

Again I say it is/was a race, so you need to know that you are going to be overexerting yourself, putting your body under stress. Why do you do a race? To see how far and hard you can go and to see if you can do it harder and faster than the rest. Snowflakes need not apply, they melt. 

[Dicky DQ]

Seems applicable here. 

[MudLark]

If you've never used a water point and you're not carrying more than two bottles, perhaps you're not really pushing your limits. Maybe you should try some more difficult events.

 

People are all different; genetically, healthwise, etc. What works for one may not work for another. Some may sweat more and lose more fluid, others less. What works for you may not work for the next guy.

[MudLark]

It is a race, so you train for it. Or do a shorter ride you can cope with. Damn I am 25kg over my racing weight and way unfit, just getting back into cycling after the n'th timer that life got in the way. So on Saturday on a hardish 3.5hr training ride (fasted and only drank 1 bottle of water)

 

I too strain but at least I "lost" 2.5kg. Sunday was an easier 3hr MTB training ride, also fasted and with 1 bottle of water. and lost another KG

 

So effectively "lost" 3.5kg over two days, I have regained 2 of those kg's by this morning so it was all fluid.

 

Yes it may not be best on the system but it is what it is.

 

Again I say it is/was a race, so you need to know that you are going to be overexerting yourself, putting your body under stress. Why do you do a race? To see how far and hard you can go and to see if you can do it harder and faster than the rest. Snowflakes need not apply, they melt.

There's a difference between being a snowflake and trying to understand the underlying science and applying it.

 

The guy that died... was he a snowflake and was his key shortcoming that he just didn't HTFU?

 

We all have limits and they're different for different people. I can do some things you can't, you can do some things I can't. There's no "one size fits all".

[shaper]

From the FAQ page https://www.shova.co.za/faq/

Water Points

• Thornville Chicken Farm H20 point sponsored by South African Legion. The point is approximately 24.5kms from the start.

• Cato Ridge H20 point sponsored by Avis. The station is approximately 41.8 kilometers from the start.

• Drummond H20 point sponsored by Tsogo Sun is situated at the Comrades Wall of Fame. This is 55.3kms from the start.

• Gillett’s H20 point  sponsored by Volvo is positioned 74.5kms from the start. It is situated outside the Gillett’s Station.

• 45th Cutting H20 point sponsored by Tsogo Sun. This is 91.2km from the start. It is situated outside the Engen Garage. Please be aware of the steep decent and dangerous sharp left turn once you have passed under the N3 Highway.

5 water points for a 100km is plenty

 

From what have read here, seems most of the complaints are from those who were ill prepared for the race, being not fit enough to do a 100km race (even if it takes you 6hrs), ill prepared with nutrition and their own water and did not take cognisance of the weather on the day.

[BMXER]

I found the answer:

 

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=waaaambulance

[Vetplant]

 

From the FAQ page https://www.shova.co.za/faq/

Water Points

• Thornville Chicken Farm H20 point sponsored by South African Legion. The point is approximately 24.5kms from the start.

• Cato Ridge H20 point sponsored by Avis. The station is approximately 41.8 kilometers from the start.

• Drummond H20 point sponsored by Tsogo Sun is situated at the Comrades Wall of Fame. This is 55.3kms from the start.

• Gillett’s H20 point  sponsored by Volvo is positioned 74.5kms from the start. It is situated outside the Gillett’s Station.

• 45th Cutting H20 point sponsored by Tsogo Sun. This is 91.2km from the start. It is situated outside the Engen Garage. Please be aware of the steep decent and dangerous sharp left turn once you have passed under the N3 Highway.

5 water points for a 100km is plenty

 

From what have read here, seems most of the complaints are from those who were ill prepared for the race, being not fit enough to do a 100km race (even if it takes you 6hrs), ill prepared with nutrition and their own water and did not take cognisance of the weather on the day.

 

Agreed with your summary here.

 

We all need to take responsibility for our own lives and not try something that can actually kill you if you are under-prepared. 

 

-Go check your cardiac health if that is a risk to you.

-Make sure you are fit enough for the distance/time in the saddle

-Hydrate correctly before the start and during the event

-Know when to call it quits if your body is giving the warning signs

 

Bad analogy: If I now go to a free-climbing event and fall to my death from 20m up, that should be my fault as I was nowhere near ready to do that, it is not the fault of the organizers.

 

As was mentioned by plenty already, cycling is not an inherently safe sport. In fact, which sport has zero risk?

 

There is also an element of when things just coincide and your number comes up, not much you can do about that. I lost my father last year at age 70 due to a big number of factors combining. It just makes you realize that time with loved ones is special, don't take anything for granted and cherish every moment. Look after yourselves people. And obviously, condolences to everyone that have lost someone at a sporting event.

[Dicky DQ]

There's a difference between being a snowflake and trying to understand the underlying science and applying it.

 

The guy that died... was he a snowflake and was his key shortcoming that he just didn't HTFU?

 

We all have limits and they're different for different people. I can do some things you can't, you can do some things I can't. There's no "one size fits all".

#knowyourlimits. If you have not trained for an event distance at race pace do not do it at race pace.

 

SH!t happens, I had a mate (Fit and strong as an ox) who was a surfski paddler (one of the best in SA) getting ready for a race, went out on a quick warm-up paddle and died there and then of a heart attack, who would have thought. These things happen.

 

As you said <We all have limits and they're different for different people. I can do some things you can't, you can do some things I can't. There's no "one size fits all".> So #knowyourlimits.

 

How do you know your limits? You train for them. PERIOD!

[Dicky DQ]

Agreed with your summary here.

 

We all need to take responsibility for our own lives and not try something that can actually kill you if you are under-prepared. 

 

-Go check your cardiac health if that is a risk to you.

-Make sure you are fit enough for the distance/time in the saddle

-Hydrate correctly before the start and during the event

-Know when to call it quits if your body is giving the warning signs

 

Bad analogy: If I now go to a free-climbing event and fall to my death from 20m up, that should be my fault as I was nowhere near ready to do that, it is not the fault of the organizers.

 

As was mentioned by plenty already, cycling is not an inherently safe sport. In fact, which sport has zero risk?

 

There is also an element of when things just coincide and your number comes up, not much you can do about that. I lost my father last year at age 70 due to a big number of factors combining. It just makes you realize that time with loved ones is special, don't take anything for granted and cherish every moment. Look after yourselves people. And obviously, condolences to everyone that have lost someone at a sporting event.

Maybe there should be qualification criteria for such events. Correct that, there should be! But then there will be an outcry as people will bitch and moan as they are excluded. 

 

Whateva.

 

I just get frustrated when people blame the organisers because they are ill prepared.