Shimano 11 speed shifter for MTB

[Alouette3]

Just for clarity, that table above refers to the cassette spacing only, so you could mix and match cassette brands between complete group sets.

There some reports on the net of people mixing Sram shifter with a Shimano derailleur, this may work, but is not covered by that table though, as this would rely on cable pull ratios instead. Shimano actually uses a very similar pull ratio on the derailleur side across 10 - 11 - 12 speed and I've used a 11spd rear derailleur with a 10spd drive train, which works beautifully. Even used a M7000 12spd rear on and 11spd drive train, but they are designed for 51T cassettes so you can't wind in the B-set enough on a 46T so it is very noisy at the top, shifts fine though.

Sorry I don't have a shifter for you. Have a derailleur, but shifter is buggered.

[Black Line]

17 minutes ago, TheoG said:

Pleasure.  I found this when searching for the Shimano 12 speed sprocket pitch, but this list was probably compiled before Shimano released 12 speed.

Shimano 12sp sprocket pitch = 3.55 mm (So no longer the same as SRAM = 3.65 mm).

Edit: BTW I recently bought a shifter that can operate any cable derailleur (within the range of it) on any cassette, anything from 2 to 20 sprockets ....  ????  Best part its wireless and can be tuned for each individual gear.  It works absolutely perfect, I don't need to buy a shifter EVER again.  Archer DX1 Trial, pricy but much cheaper than SRAM AXS and Shimano Di2.  imho its a better solution that Di2 with AXS the ultimate at a hefty price.

Please share link. I'm pretty sure there will be lots of interested parties for this component!

[TheoG]

https://archercomponents.com/products/d1x-trail

[Black Line]

2 minutes ago, Alouette3 said:

Just for clarity, that table above refers to the cassette spacing only, so you could mix and match cassette brands between complete group sets.

There some reports on the net of people mixing Sram shifter with a Shimano derailleur, this may work, but is not covered by that table though, as this would rely on cable pull ratios instead. Shimano actually uses a very similar pull ratio on the derailleur side across 10 - 11 - 12 speed and I've used a 11spd rear derailleur with a 10spd drive train, which works beautifully. Even used a M7000 12spd rear on and 11spd drive train, but they are designed for 51T cassettes so you can't wind in the B-set enough on a 46T so it is very noisy at the top, shifts fine though.

Sorry I don't have a shifter for you. Have a derailleur, but shifter is buggered.

very insightful knowledge indeed. thanks for the offer, but no need for the derailleur.

[Martin PJ]

1 hour ago, TheoG said:

100% the sprocket pitch is identical for 11 speed SRAM & Shimano.  The good old days before 12 speed where they still matched each other with critical dimensions:

To clarify, this is not the cassette, but the shifter, so it means you can mix and match shifters with derailleurs (Shimano / SRAM MTB). I also noticed that the 10 speed Shimano derailleur works on the 11 speed cassette when matched with 11 speed shifter. The only thing to worry about when using 10 speed Shimano MTB is the capacity of the derailleur, many of them can only cope with 36 teeth maximum on the cassette.

[Chadvdw67]

So quick question then to you clever peoples, can I use a 10speed (XT) shifter with a 9speed (Altus) derailleur ??

[TheoG]

18 minutes ago, Chadvdw67 said:

So quick question then to you clever peoples, can I use a 10speed (XT) shifter with a 9speed (Altus) derailleur ??

I assume then you want to use a 10 speed cassette also?

To be honest I know nothing about Altus.  If the pull ratio is the same and it can handle the increased range, then it will work, but only if these conditions are met.

[Martin PJ]

40 minutes ago, Chadvdw67 said:

So quick question then to you clever peoples, can I use a 10speed (XT) shifter with a 9speed (Altus) derailleur ??

It won't work.

 

[Chadvdw67]

20 minutes ago, TheoG said:

I assume then you want to use a 10 speed cassette also?

To be honest I know nothing about Altus.  If the pull ratio is the same and it can handle the increased range, then it will work, but only if these conditions are met.

Yes, with a 10 speed cassette

1 minute ago, Martin PJ said:

It won't work.

 

That sucks, thanks for crushing my hopes and dreams.....????

[Alouette3]

3 hours ago, Martin PJ said:

To clarify, this is not the cassette, but the shifter, so it means you can mix and match shifters with derailleurs (Shimano / SRAM MTB). I also noticed that the 10 speed Shimano derailleur works on the 11 speed cassette when matched with 11 speed shifter. The only thing to worry about when using 10 speed Shimano MTB is the capacity of the derailleur, many of them can only cope with 36 teeth maximum on the cassette.

Not true, this is the reference paragraph to the table posted:

"Cassette standards differ by number of speeds, i.e. by the number of sprockets on a cassette. Generally: the more speeds (sprockets), the thinner a single sprocket gets and the more densely they are packed (less distance between adjacent sprockets). Distance between the middles of two adjacent sprockets is called “cassette pitch” (different from sprocket pitch, that defines adjacent teeth distance)."

https://bike.bikegremlin.com/3573/bicycle-cassette-rear-chainrings-standards/

Whether a derailleur and shifter will work together is dependent on the cable pull ratios 

http://blog.artscyclery.com/science-behind-the-magic/science-behind-the-magic-drivetrain-compatibility/

Though in the real world some of the combinations listed in the above article not to work, do actualy work just fine. 

 

[TheoG]

Unless you have a shifter that you can chose how many gears and fine tune each gear individually .... .

[RobertWhitehead]

2 hours ago, Martin PJ said:

It won't work.

 

Why won't it work? You will have one extra gear but if you tighten the cable enough it won't go as high / low. I have used a 10 speed on 7 speed in the past without any hassles

[Jono]

There you go....

https://bikehub.co.za/classifieds/item/shifters/499849/shimano-slx-11spd-shifter-m7000

[Alouette3]

10 minutes ago, RobertWhitehead said:

Why won't it work? You will have one extra gear but if you tighten the cable enough it won't go as high / low. I have used a 10 speed on 7 speed in the past without any hassles

Shimano changed the cable pull ratios between 9 an 10 speed.

[Alouette3]

42 minutes ago, TheoG said:

Unless you have a shifter that you can chose how many gears and fine tune each gear individually .... .

That Archer unit looks cool!

[Martin PJ]

32 minutes ago, RobertWhitehead said:

Why won't it work? You will have one extra gear but if you tighten the cable enough it won't go as high / low. I have used a 10 speed on 7 speed in the past without any hassles

The 9 speed derailleur doesn't move the right distance with the 10 speed shifter. The MTB 10 and 9 speed shifter cable pulls are too different.

Using your ten speed on a 7 speed, was this a road bike and Shimano. Road 10 and 9 and not different cable pulls.