Hairy Posted June 1, 2023 Share 5 minutes ago, MTBRIDER1234 said: I know a 2 stroke pollutes more, but less than most cars on the road (especially here), and like I said, it's cheap to buy and easy to fix. The fuel consumption of the one I was looking at is just a liter or so less than your harley per 100km, which admittedly is pretty terrible for a tiny engine. I'm also not old enough (just) to get a bike over 125cc, and I have been told that 125 4 strokes are frikken gutless. A 125 2 stroke sumo is definitely a fun and nimble first bike from what I understand. Yeah having an EV does definitely become a lifestyle with having to always factor in charging points and range. Also in dense urban environments, a bicycle is the way to go. The power of riding on pavements and getting through tight spaces where a motorbike can't is extremely helpful. The only advantage of a motorbike is lane splitting, but that can be very sketchy at times. I didn't even consider the battery point to be honest. I guess it requires a larger amount of capital to start the business, but swapping a battery is definitely akin to fueling up in how long it takes. You have raised some very good points, and considering that you used to work as a bicycle courier, you are definitely more knowledgeable on the subject. These are the type of respectful and engaging conversations that I like to have on forums. I have learned a lot talking to everyone here. Out of interest, where do you live please? The RE your bike selection, there are many very experience motorbike riders on the following thread that will help you out with information....they certainly assisted me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTBRIDER1234 Posted June 1, 2023 Share 8 minutes ago, Hairy said: Out of interest, where do you live please? The RE your bike selection, there are many very experience motorbike riders on the following thread that will help you out with information....they certainly assisted me. I stay in Tokai For my motorbike selection, I don't have a lot of money to burn (if I enjoy riding motorbikes more than MTB, then eventually selling the enduro bike would allow me to buy a pretty nice motorbike). My budget is probably 30kish max, but I would like to spend less than that because gear is expensive also. I am not flustered doing work to the bike if it means it costs me less upfront, as I enjoy working on all things mechanical. Ideally looking for a supermoto or similar, because with a change of wheels, removing number plat and indicators, and some tweaks to the suspension, I can go ride offroad with all my buddies. 125 road bikes are kinda pointless, because if you get a streetbike, then it should be quick IMO. In a few years, a built drz400sm looks tempting, simply because from what I have heard, they are bulletproof and not so fast that you will kill yourself. I am also wondering whether my bike handling skills on the mountain bike would transfer to motorbikes at all? Anybody's input would be valued. Edited June 1, 2023 by MTBRIDER1234 Hairy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebra Posted June 1, 2023 Share I too, agree with much of what HAIRY writes, but MTBRIDER 1234, you make some good points, too… 1. I too would NOT go for a 2-smoker, lots of reasons, my 5c. 2. that change you talk about; wheels, indicators, etc, is quite onerous; fun first few times, then QUICKLY loses it’s appeal… 3.1 E-bike with a spare or 2 spare batteries would be VERY versatile; that said I get a HARD 90km out of my (single) battery, and battery-efficiencies are only improving (put a point, obviously - the law of diminishing returns). 4. I am often surprised at just how MANY unorthodox route changes I can make on an eBike, versus say my motor-bike(s)… 5. Pollution; many articles on the web on why battery is less environmentally damaging than petrol; suffice to say, pollution from ONE power plant is easier to manage than say pollution from 10,000 cars, and then solar charging is becoming a BIG consideration, too. 6. there are even clever chaps out there doing math to see how an electric vehicle (car) can be a MOBILE BATTERY returning power to a home at night, coupled with so.at during the day - fraught with complications, but fascinating stuff! Reading and learning along with you, MTBRIDER! Chris Hairy and MTBRIDER1234 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisF Posted June 1, 2023 Share 6 hours ago, MTBRIDER1234 said: I know a 2 stroke pollutes more, but less than most cars on the road (especially here), and like I said, it's cheap to buy and easy to fix. The fuel consumption of the one I was looking at is just a liter or so less than your harley per 100km, which admittedly is pretty terrible for a tiny engine. I'm also not old enough (just) to get a bike over 125cc, and I have been told that 125 4 strokes are frikken gutless. A 125 2 stroke sumo is definitely a fun and nimble first bike from what I understand. Yeah having an EV does definitely become a lifestyle with having to always factor in charging points and range. Also in dense urban environments, a bicycle is the way to go. The power of riding on pavements and getting through tight spaces where a motorbike can't is extremely helpful. The only advantage of a motorbike is lane splitting, but that can be very sketchy at times. I didn't even consider the battery point to be honest. I guess it requires a larger amount of capital to start the business, but swapping a battery is definitely akin to fueling up in how long it takes. You have raised some very good points, and considering that you used to work as a bicycle courier, you are definitely more knowledgeable on the subject. These are the type of respectful and engaging conversations that I like to have on forums. I have learned a lot talking to everyone here. @Hairy has said most already ... From an ebike cost point - The classic Euro style commuter that can be used for deliveries costs a fraction of the heavily overpriced e-MTB prices we see !! My Darvin ebike cost slightly more than a second battery for my Giant. Spare batteries for the Darvin only cost R5k. I have timed my battery changes to a total of 43 seconds. A delivery ebike with 2 spare batteries can actually be bought for less than a decent motorcycle. The business model actually do make sense. MTB ... fun factor .... over-priced hobby prices .... all totally different topics Hairy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted June 2, 2023 Share 22 hours ago, MTBRIDER1234 said: I stay in Tokai For my motorbike selection, I don't have a lot of money to burn (if I enjoy riding motorbikes more than MTB, then eventually selling the enduro bike would allow me to buy a pretty nice motorbike). My budget is probably 30kish max, but I would like to spend less than that because gear is expensive also. I am not flustered doing work to the bike if it means it costs me less upfront, as I enjoy working on all things mechanical. Ideally looking for a supermoto or similar, because with a change of wheels, removing number plat and indicators, and some tweaks to the suspension, I can go ride offroad with all my buddies. 125 road bikes are kinda pointless, because if you get a streetbike, then it should be quick IMO. In a few years, a built drz400sm looks tempting, simply because from what I have heard, they are bulletproof and not so fast that you will kill yourself. I am also wondering whether my bike handling skills on the mountain bike would transfer to motorbikes at all? Anybody's input would be valued. So on the bike this morning I was giving your thread a little more thought. You are clearly now finished, or finishing school based on me assuming you are 18years old, or thereabouts. This then started the process in my head (a) is he going to study further (b) is he going to be working, and if so how far is work from his house (e) is budget and issue and (f) what are his short to mid term life goals. OP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTBRIDER1234 Posted June 2, 2023 Share 3 hours ago, Hairy said: So on the bike this morning I was giving your thread a little more thought. You are clearly now finished, or finishing school based on me assuming you are 18years old, or thereabouts. This then started the process in my head (a) is he going to study further (b) is he going to be working, and if so how far is work from his house (e) is budget and issue and (f) what are his short to mid term life goals. OP? I am most likely to take a gap year and work during then, and I will probably work 25k or so maximum from my house, so nothing very hectic. Budget is somewhat of an issue now, it won't be so much when I work, but I still won't be earning a hell of a lot. Biggest issue right now is the law that I have to ride a 125cc or smaller bike. Otherwise, a crf250/drz400sm would be my bike of choice. Not sure on the short to mid-term goals... something I need to give more thought for sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilkManMike Posted June 2, 2023 Share 28 minutes ago, MTBRIDER1234 said: I am most likely to take a gap year and work during then, and I will probably work 25k or so maximum from my house, so nothing very hectic. Budget is somewhat of an issue now, it won't be so much when I work, but I still won't be earning a hell of a lot. Biggest issue right now is the law that I have to ride a 125cc or smaller bike. Otherwise, a crf250/drz400sm would be my bike of choice. Not sure on the short to mid-term goals... something I need to give more thought for sure Wowser, talk about a thread derail of note… eitherway OP, surely you can’t be too far off 18? I would just go for a slightly bigger bike from the get go, I have never herd of anyone ever being fined or given trouble over the 125 for under 18s issue. I had a drz400 while in high school, but not in motard trim, had it set up as proper dual sport, and it was a lovely machine. Stopped it for a GS650 Dakar in my Matric year, which was my absolute favourite moto so far… so much so, I’m currently in the market for a well looked after one again, but will swop the front end with parts from the Yamaha WRF450 - did the same mod on my old one, and transformed its off road ability… and losing the ABS was no big deal, since you turn it off on gravel anyway…. but, modern 125/250 4 strokes are really not that terrible for commuter bikes, and a lot lighter on juice, as well as spark plugs and cylinder heads compared to 2strokes. 2 strokes are great for racing, but they have extremely narrow power bands, making them a bit tedious for daily use, as well as often not ideal for weekend soft enduro or dual sport use. Hard enduro charging up cliff faces and stuff is another story, but even then, you should be looking at 250/300cc two strokes, and there aren’t many around that are road legal…. Plus again, they tend to want top end rebuilds after every proper thrashing. Edited June 2, 2023 by MilkManMike MTBRIDER1234 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTBRIDER1234 Posted June 2, 2023 Share 21 minutes ago, MilkManMike said: Wowser, talk about a thread derail of note… eitherway OP, surely you can’t be too far off 18? I would just go for a slightly bigger bike from the get go, I have never herd of anyone ever being fined or given trouble over the 125 for under 18s issue. I had a drz400 while in high school, but not in motard trim, had it set up as proper dual sport, and it was a lovely machine. Stopped it for a GS650 Dakar in my Matric year, which was my absolute favourite moto so far… so much so, I’m currently in the market for a well looked after one again, but will swop the front end with parts from the Yamaha WRF450 - did the same mod on my old one, and transformed its off road ability… and losing the ABS was no big deal, since you turn it off on gravel anyway…. but, modern 125/250 4 strokes are really not that terrible for commuter bikes, and a lot lighter on juice, as well as spark plugs and cylinder heads compared to 2strokes. 2 strokes are great for racing, but they have extremely narrow power bands, making them a bit tedious for daily use, as well as often not ideal for weekend soft enduro or dual sport use. Hard enduro charging up cliff faces and stuff is another story, but even then, you should be looking at 250/300cc two strokes, and there aren’t many around that are road legal…. Plus again, they tend to want top end rebuilds after every proper thrashing. Ok cool, thanks. The only thing I was thinking is surely I can't register a bike over 125cc in my name if I am not old enough? Or maybe I am making this up haha Honestly, a drz400 looks like a lovely choice, and the police probably won't even care to check if you are allowed to ride it. One of my buddies got an aprilia shiver 750 as his first bike, and has had no issues. You raised a good point that I forgot about, rebuilding the top end every 25 hours or so will be expensive (I can do labour, but the parts are north of 2k) and a pain in the ass. Looks like 4 stroke is the way to go. Sorry for derailing your thread, and thanks everyone for the advice. My dad doesn't seem to mind, but I think convincing my mom will be a bit harder... Zebra 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilkManMike Posted June 2, 2023 Share Don’t worry about the registration, you only need to show your ID to register it, not your license. In fact, you can register a vehicle on your name even if you have no license at all, the title (natis) registration has to do with ownership, not about who is gonna ride it. You could run into trouble with insuring it, but I only insure my motorbikes for third party/fire/theft anyway, full comprehensive on motorbikes under R100 000.00 is not really worth it anyways. Premiums are super high. You shouldn’t have an issue with third party insurance. MTBRIDER1234 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted June 2, 2023 Share 2 hours ago, MTBRIDER1234 said: I am most likely to take a gap year and work during then, and I will probably work 25k or so maximum from my house, so nothing very hectic. Budget is somewhat of an issue now, it won't be so much when I work, but I still won't be earning a hell of a lot. Biggest issue right now is the law that I have to ride a 125cc or smaller bike. Otherwise, a crf250/drz400sm would be my bike of choice. Not sure on the short to mid-term goals... something I need to give more thought for sure Unless you need motorised transport, commute to work and back if you are able to and take an uber on really bad weather days as a back up support system. The cash you save by doing this will help you out after your gap year. Let your friends spend all their cash (edit) on all the toys and flask kit they want ... but do your best to get a good bit of yours saved up, invest in an education with this, or use this to supplement your expenses while studying and then keep moving a head in life. It will suck at times, but the long term benefits will make it all worth it. Edited June 2, 2023 by Hairy MilkManMike, Zebra and DJR 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisF Posted June 2, 2023 Share 6 hours ago, Hairy said: So on the bike this morning I was giving your thread a little more thought. You are clearly now finished, or finishing school based on me assuming you are 18years old, or thereabouts. This then started the process in my head (a) is he going to study further (b) is he going to be working, and if so how far is work from his house (e) is budget and issue and (f) what are his short to mid term life goals. OP? Seems this thread is stuck in our minds .... Saw a MrD e-bike today in Plattekloof. This thing was CRAWLING along .... still he kept on catching us while we were stuck at the robots. It was okay while there was a shoulder. Then it got dangerous as the cars tried to get past him .... He actually had TWO batteries in the slot behind the seat post. Could not help but wonder what this bike is actually capable of ...... The OP may want to look here as well - https://www.mrdfood.com/become-a-driver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTBRIDER1234 Posted June 2, 2023 Share 2 minutes ago, Hairy said: Unless you need motorised transport, commute to work and back if you are able to and take an uber on really bad weather days as a back up support system. The cash you save by doing this will help you out after your gap year. Let your friends spend all their cash (edit) on all the toys and flask kit they want ... but do your best to get a good bit of yours saved up, invest in an education with this, or use this to supplement your expenses while studying and then keep moving a head in life. It will suck at times, but the long term benefits will make it all worth it. By commute to work and back, I assume you mean by bicycle? Yeah it will be nice to save money, but I honestly think that if I like motorbikes more, I may just sell my mountain bike and keep the money. MTB is extremely overpriced and I am sick of buying blatantly overpriced products. For the same price as mtb shoes, you can buy moto boots, same goes for pretty much every other type of clothing. It also appears that it is cheaper to replace the drivetrain on a motorbike (sprockets and chain). A gx cassette is around 4k, and an xx1 chain is about 2k. Paying 6k for that is a complete ripoff. Honestly it looks like for the same price as a well specced enduro bike (MTB) you can go out and buy something like an r6, which looks way more fun (and can serve as a mode of transport). As much as I love riding mountain bikes, at the current rate it is costing me, I don't think it's sustainable, especially when I will have more expenses when studying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisF Posted June 2, 2023 Share 9 minutes ago, MTBRIDER1234 said: By commute to work and back, I assume you mean by bicycle? Yeah it will be nice to save money, but I honestly think that if I like motorbikes more, I may just sell my mountain bike and keep the money. MTB is extremely overpriced and I am sick of buying blatantly overpriced products. For the same price as mtb shoes, you can buy moto boots, same goes for pretty much every other type of clothing. It also appears that it is cheaper to replace the drivetrain on a motorbike (sprockets and chain). A gx cassette is around 4k, and an xx1 chain is about 2k. Paying 6k for that is a complete ripoff. Honestly it looks like for the same price as a well specced enduro bike (MTB) you can go out and buy something like an r6, which looks way more fun (and can serve as a mode of transport). As much as I love riding mountain bikes, at the current rate it is costing me, I don't think it's sustainable, especially when I will have more expenses when studying. Reality check .... ALL sports are as expensive as YOU allow it to become. You DONT "need" GX .... you choose to buy into the hype .... you choose to buy into the high prices. A complete 1x11 XT drive system costs less than a GX cassette, and 99% of users wont ever "need" anything more. But we choose to buy into the hype ..... Having done the motorcycle thing for decades I promise you, you CAN buy into its hype equally easy .... Same for golf ... and any other sport. Choose your sport. ENJOY it. and KNOW that you will take a loss when you move on to the next sport ..... thats life .... PS - keep that MTB .... time WILL come when you need it to go buy spares for the other wheels ..... all of us got that T-shirt .... Hairy, Zebra and MTBRIDER1234 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTBRIDER1234 Posted June 2, 2023 Share 14 minutes ago, ChrisF said: Reality check .... ALL sports are as expensive as YOU allow it to become. You DONT "need" GX .... you choose to buy into the hype .... you choose to buy into the high prices. A complete 1x11 XT drive system costs less than a GX cassette, and 99% of users wont ever "need" anything more. But we choose to buy into the hype ..... Having done the motorcycle thing for decades I promise you, you CAN buy into its hype equally easy .... Same for golf ... and any other sport. Choose your sport. ENJOY it. and KNOW that you will take a loss when you move on to the next sport ..... thats life .... PS - keep that MTB .... time WILL come when you need it to go buy spares for the other wheels ..... all of us got that T-shirt .... True, but I chose GX because it makes it that much easier to sell. I used to ride 1x11 and had no problems with it, but I got the gx cassette for free as well, so that was a huge reason why I went with it. I guess I am just interested to try motorbikes and see how they stack up. I like the adrenaline from riding mountain bikes, and it looks like riding sportbikes give you all that rush (and more). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisF Posted June 2, 2023 Share 1 hour ago, MTBRIDER1234 said: True, but I chose GX because it makes it that much easier to sell. I used to ride 1x11 and had no problems with it, but I got the gx cassette for free as well, so that was a huge reason why I went with it. I guess I am just interested to try motorbikes and see how they stack up. I like the adrenaline from riding mountain bikes, and it looks like riding sportbikes give you all that rush (and more). Enjoy 👍 Bikes ARE a thrill .... MTBRIDER1234 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
love2fly Posted June 2, 2023 Share If you're going to let employees ride/drive your vehicle's expect them to be abused. The high staff turnover of the delivery industry would increase the abuse exponentially. On a daily basis I see delivery motorbikes riding where the front and rear wheels travel a different line.... Something that was discussed many years ago in trying to get SA onto bicycles was not only our complete lack of cycle lanes, but the terrain and our weather. I see taxis in Northriding (Joburg) using the paved pavement on the oncoming side of the road....imagine how they would abuse cycle lanes. I rode motorbikes as a teen in the late 70's and 80's and and will never mix it with 4 wheels on 2 wheels. PS the upkeep on an e-bike will be greater than on an ICE motorcycle. Said motorcycle will be patched up many times and will do in excess of 30-50,000km. E-bike ridden by employee? 🤣 MTBRIDER1234 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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