Cape Epic 2024 - To Brain or not to Brain?

[Rodrigo Abreu]

Hi all there, 

 

I noticed CE24 will be probably tougher than other years with more climbing, but also more descents, and I was wondering if folks who live in SA and ride it regularly (my last one was 10 years ago) would have an opinion of racing with a Brain Epic with 100mm vs a non-Brain Epic with 120mm (in summary Specialized Epic vs Specialized Epic Evo). Are the descents really technical and rough so they would compensate the loss of efficiency the longer travel with no pedaling platform certainly brings? Or depending on preference it would be ok to privilege climbing efficiency with the Brain even with slightly rougher descents in the view of those who know the trails for next year?

Inputs appreciated!

[Viking1]

Hi Rodrigo,

I have “test ridden” all the trails / routes of ACE 2024, and would go 120mm without a doubt. After finishing 5 Epic’s I consider myself good technically, but especially Tulbagh is rough, and you will enjoy the extra travel.

I build a bike up a few years ago and chose the Fox 100mm due to the weight difference, in hindsight it was a mistake considering the trails around Western Cape.
 

My riding partner ride the Specialized Epic Evo, and it is slightly more “sluggish” on the climbs, but the “comfort” on the decents  more than makes up for it.

Your Body will thank you on day 5😊

Enjoy and good luck

 

 

 

 

 

[Rodrigo Abreu]

Thank you Viking1, that's precisely what I wanted input on! After several years of Epics, I have been riding the new Epic World Cup, and loving it as it is super efficient, but indeed it would probably feel super harsh on the ACE. I parallel with that I just started riding an S-Works Epic Evo Ltd, and on the first rides I did feel it was "too soft" on the rear to the point of interfering with hard efforts out of the saddle and even while seated if pushing hard. I have been tweaking the sag on the SidLuxe to reduce it and leave it a little more efficient (between 17 and 20%), and it got noticeably better, but it still doesn't compare to a platform such as the Brain or the new WCID shock. I hope they eventually launch the Flight Attendant option for it...

[DieselnDust]

The route is roughly similar to what we rode in 2016 and 2018. Your choice of bike is largely irrelevant. Yes the trails will be rocky in places but there will also be lots of sandy patches where a longer travel bike can get bogged down. The ability to lock out the suspension to traverse sandy sections is worth its weight in gold. 
 

you haven’t given an indication of your riding ability , height , weight or training . Have completed many of your training miles on the MTB and on trails or on the road. 
 

without that sort of information my experience of the routes means nothing as I have no basis of comparison between you and I. 
for what’s it’s worth I rode both on a 100mm travel 27.5. The bike was never a problem. 

[babse]

absolute no brainer 

[Rodrigo Abreu]

1 hour ago, DieselnDust said:

The route is roughly similar to what we rode in 2016 and 2018. Your choice of bike is largely irrelevant. Yes the trails will be rocky in places but there will also be lots of sandy patches where a longer travel bike can get bogged down. The ability to lock out the suspension to traverse sandy sections is worth its weight in gold. 
 

you haven’t given an indication of your riding ability , height , weight or training . Have completed many of your training miles on the MTB and on trails or on the road. 
 

without that sort of information my experience of the routes means nothing as I have no basis of comparison between you and I. 
for what’s it’s worth I rode both on a 100mm travel 27.5. The bike was never a problem. 

Will be riding in Grand Masters, light rider at 65kg, Riding ability advanced with 1 Cape and 2 Brasil Rides completed, good technical descender and training 4/5 times a week both road and MTB… have been riding bikes for as long as I recognize myself, which means over 50 years now… (55 next year). 

And longer suspension = lockout available, while shorter brain = no lockout but platform, with the 3rd option being the brain/no brain of the WC. 

My question again was focused on how rough and battering are the descents on a 100 / brain compared to a 120 / no brain in the new routes. 

The only ACE I completed (the only I rode) was back in 2014, and I did it with a pretty harsh 29 Epic with brain 100 front and rear, and did not feel I needed more travel. but as far as I remember this feeling for lockout needs was not all there. 

I have been training with the new WC 75/110 for a while now, and just got a longer travel bike (the Evo, 110/120, manual lockout only, no remote) to try it out

tks

 

PS: Brasil Ride 2011 was tougher than ACE 2014

 

 

 

 

[eala]

4 hours ago, DieselnDust said:

The route is roughly similar to what we rode in 2016 and 2018. Your choice of bike is largely irrelevant. Yes the trails will be rocky in places but there will also be lots of sandy patches where a longer travel bike can get bogged down. The ability to lock out the suspension to traverse sandy sections is worth its weight in gold. 
 

you haven’t given an indication of your riding ability , height , weight or training . Have completed many of your training miles on the MTB and on trails or on the road. 
 

without that sort of information my experience of the routes means nothing as I have no basis of comparison between you and I. 
for what’s it’s worth I rode both on a 100mm travel 27.5. The bike was never a problem. 

Did Epic 2020 and used XC bike with 120 fox 34 in front .Best fork Imo .Dropper highly advantages also .Prepare for 5 days of, not so smooth, singletrack 

Edited November 1, 2023 by eala

[DieselnDust]

1 hour ago, Rodrigo Abreu said:

Will be riding in Grand Masters, light rider at 65kg, Riding ability advanced with 1 Cape and 2 Brasil Rides completed, good technical descender and training 4/5 times a week both road and MTB… have been riding bikes for as long as I recognize myself, which means over 50 years now… (55 next year). 

And longer suspension = lockout available, while shorter brain = no lockout but platform, with the 3rd option being the brain/no brain of the WC. 

My question again was focused on how rough and battering are the descents on a 100 / brain compared to a 120 / no brain in the new routes. 

The only ACE I completed (the only I rode) was back in 2014, and I did it with a pretty harsh 29 Epic with brain 100 front and rear, and did not feel I needed more travel. but as far as I remember this feeling for lockout needs was not all there. 

I have been training with the new WC 75/110 for a while now, and just got a longer travel bike (the Evo, 110/120, manual lockout only, no remote) to try it out

tks

 

PS: Brasil Ride 2011 was tougher than ACE 2014

 

 

 

 

Sounds like overall conditioning is good and you’re not carrying a lot of weight. A big factor is going to be heat and ability to carry enough water between stops. All the bikes you are considering have space for at least 1300ml of hydration. Plus a hydration pack. If the latter you will be carrying heavy. Plus the bike this adds up and adds to fatigue. 
what you  don’t want is a fork that is going to loose performance or become chattery on descents, you will want the bike with the front end that tends towards stability. 
which ever has the fork that can be tuned to provide an open position as well as platform And perhaps a lock out as well is going to be the way to go.

overall I would say the epic evo is the more flexible option that ticks the tune ability box.

[Zebra]

Quite a few of the bikes can take 3 water-bottle mounts, whichI find preferable to say 2 bottles + a hydration pack; having done 3 Epics; 1 with hydration pack and bottles x 2, , 2 Epics without the hydration pack, I cannot recommend highly enough leaving a hydration pack OUT of the equation, where feasible.

Cheers

Chris

[Rodrigo Abreu]

5 hours ago, Zebra said:

Quite a few of the bikes can take 3 water-bottle mounts, whichI find preferable to say 2 bottles + a hydration pack; having done 3 Epics; 1 with hydration pack and bottles x 2, , 2 Epics without the hydration pack, I cannot recommend highly enough leaving a hydration pack OUT of the equation, where feasible.

Cheers

Chris

Agree completely, I pretty much HATE hydration packs and have never used them since over 10 years ago. I did the ACE with only 2 bottles, and for me it was more than enough, plan on repeating it next year.

IMHO hydration packs are great if you are really a profuse sweater or if you are going into unexplored territory or long stretches without any race support.

 

[Rodrigo Abreu]

9 hours ago, DieselnDust said:

Sounds like overall conditioning is good and you’re not carrying a lot of weight. A big factor is going to be heat and ability to carry enough water between stops. All the bikes you are considering have space for at least 1300ml of hydration. Plus a hydration pack. If the latter you will be carrying heavy. Plus the bike this adds up and adds to fatigue. 
what you  don’t want is a fork that is going to loose performance or become chattery on descents, you will want the bike with the front end that tends towards stability. 
which ever has the fork that can be tuned to provide an open position as well as platform And perhaps a lock out as well is going to be the way to go.

overall I would say the epic evo is the more flexible option that ticks the tune ability box.

Thanks, that’s my plan A today. I have been putting more miles on my Epic Evo and fine tuned the rear suspension to be on the efficient side of things now, so getting to like it more on climbs.

The 120 SID Ultimate is pretty good and lockout works as a charm. Not missing the brain at all on the front end. Now trying to assess if remote lockout for the rear makes sense, leaning to the side of no, as this is not XCO AND I’m not racing for any kind of podium spots or bragging rights…

[DieselnDust]

51 minutes ago, Rodrigo Abreu said:

Thanks, that’s my plan A today. I have been putting more miles on my Epic Evo and fine tuned the rear suspension to be on the efficient side of things now, so getting to like it more on climbs.

The 120 SID Ultimate is pretty good and lockout works as a charm. Not missing the brain at all on the front end. Now trying to assess if remote lockout for the rear makes sense, leaning to the side of no, as this is not XCO AND I’m not racing for any kind of podium spots or bragging rights…

Remote lock out on the rear is nt as important as for the fork especially when it’s sandy. For long gravel road or fire road climbs a  rear lock kit makes sense otherwise just a 3 position. Rear shock with open , platform and firm compression damping is ideal.

use separate front and rear actuators if possible 

[eala]

18 hours ago, Zebra said:

Quite a few of the bikes can take 3 water-bottle mounts, whichI find preferable to say 2 bottles + a hydration pack; having done 3 Epics; 1 with hydration pack and bottles x 2, , 2 Epics without the hydration pack, I cannot recommend highly enough leaving a hydration pack OUT of the equation, where feasible.

Cheers

Chris

Both my Events i used bikes with only one water bottle holder .I used a liter bottle ,they are hard to find. At the water table i drink another bottle and carry that in my stomach.Hydration packs help when the terrain  is rough and you cannot get a free hand to drink.This happens more often than you think .On hot days hydration packs can be a life saver and you have a place for spares and tubes .The team should have two tubes available .Note .Those expensive orange indestructible tubes don't work .Being able to lock all your suspension is lekke if you like to stand and pedal .I locked mine a lot on long climbs   

[eala]

On 10/30/2023 at 6:32 PM, Rodrigo Abreu said:

Hi all there, 

 

I noticed CE24 will be probably tougher than other years with more climbing, but also more descents, and I was wondering if folks who live in SA and ride it regularly (my last one was 10 years ago) would have an opinion of racing with a Brain Epic with 100mm vs a non-Brain Epic with 120mm (in summary Specialized Epic vs Specialized Epic Evo). Are the descents really technical and rough so they would compensate the loss of efficiency the longer travel with no pedaling platform certainly brings? Or depending on preference it would be ok to privilege climbing efficiency with the Brain even with slightly rougher descents in the view of those who know the trails for next year?

Inputs appreciated!

Best fork Imo is a Fox 34 120mm  .I also ride an ohlins 120mm 34 that i rate highly . Both are such good forks you don't need to lock them 

[Zebra]

36 minutes ago, eala said:

Both my Events i used bikes with only one water bottle holder .I used a liter bottle ,they are hard to find. At the water table i drink another bottle and carry that in my stomach. Hydration packs help when the terrain  is rough and you cannot get a free hand to drink. This happens more often than you think .On hot days hydration packs can be a life saver and you have a place for spares and tubes .The team should have two tubes available .

All true. But so you carry say 2L (2kg) of water on the hottest part of your back, add in a tube, maybe, some tools, as you mention, 2 energy bars, etc, and very quickly you have several kilo's on a part of the back that sweats properly - rather then a hip-hydration system, but where possible, let the DONKEY (read: bicycle) carry weight, rather than your BODY (where feasible, of course).

Horses for courses, I understand, just be aware that not everyone NEEDS a hydration pack - some years back, it was almost a 'right of passage'; nowadays, not so much!

[eala]

18 hours ago, Zebra said:

All true. But so you carry say 2L (2kg) of water on the hottest part of your back, add in a tube, maybe, some tools, as you mention, 2 energy bars, etc, and very quickly you have several kilo's on a part of the back that sweats properly - rather then a hip-hydration system, but where possible, let the DONKEY (read: bicycle) carry weight, rather than your BODY (where feasible, of course).

Horses for courses, I understand, just be aware that not everyone NEEDS a hydration pack - some years back, it was almost a 'right of passage'; nowadays, not so much!

The advantage of a pack on your back is clean water and your hands are free .It is often impossible to reach for a bottle if you are riding single file on technical terrain ,especially the ACE can have hours of riding this way