Aero wheels vs Climbing wheels

[Cocaine]

I'm pretty light (around 63kg last time I checked) and I use zipp 404 tubular wheels in all weather conditions. As BikeMax said, the crosswind effect is exagerated. The only warning I can give you is that the breaking power isn't as good as an aluminium rim when its raining. That said I used them this weekend at Bonnievale and had no problems. Except that I hit a railway line and the front wheel went out of true...

In my opinion the Zipp 404 is the best value wheel your going to find. (Well the best high end performance wheel) They are light and aero and you will notice the difference when you ride them, I guarentee it. The important thing to remember is they are specifically racing wheels, so if you plan to train on them then buy something else!

Cocaine2006-11-07 08:02:24

[GoLefty!!]

Aerodynamic wheels are one of the biggest marketing successing that we cyclist have lapped up.

 

The designers throw number at us and we go  wow...

 

But the basic principals of aerodyanmics remain unchanged. Frontal area still governs the ultimate aero performance. All the smoothing of airflow of the rim is churned up by the spokes a they move from 3o'clock to 9 o'clock, thereafter the relative velocity of each drops and it plays less of a roll.

 

The biggest gains that avergae Joe can make is to get leaner,  and thus get lower on the bike.

 

Wear a helmet that's aerodynamic.

 

These have more of an effect on your ultimate speed than whether you ride ZIpp 404 or Mavic Open pro's laced to Record hubs.

 

For wheels, weight is farmore important than the aerodynamics but light weight aero wheels do have advantages.  They just cost too much

[RABUBI]

But aero carbon wheels like Zipp are still the ultimate piece of bling most people want.

[TitusTi]

For all the wrong reasons.

[bikemonster]

For all the wrong reasons.

 

Hi TitusTi

 

OK, I'll bite...

 

The wrong reasons being?

 

And the right reasons would be?

 

[GoLefty!!]

But aero carbon wheels like Zipp are still the ultimate piece of bling most people want.

 

sure, because it's bling,not because they'll ride faster. Maybe the placebo effect will make them go faster but this wears off.

 

 

Then theres the cross wind effect. Aerowheel are terribl in crosswinds.

 

All an aero wheel does is give the manufacturer more space to throw their logo in your face. It's called marketing

[Prince]

Never under estimate the bling effect. Watches are the best example, Rolex at R25K Casio at R500. Both tell you what the time is!!

[GoLefty!!]

and the casio is more reliable...

[BikeMax]

 

Aerodynamic wheels are one of the biggest marketing successing that we cyclist have lapped up.

 

The designers throw number at us and we go  wow...

 

But the basic principals of aerodyanmics remain unchanged. Frontal area still governs the ultimate aero performance. All the smoothing of airflow of the rim is churned up by the spokes a they move from 3o'clock to 9 o'clock' date=' thereafter the relative velocity of each drops and it plays less of a roll.

 

The biggest gains that avergae Joe can make is to get leaner,  and thus get lower on the bike.

 

Wear a helmet that's aerodynamic.

 

These have more of an effect on your ultimate speed than whether you ride ZIpp 404 or Mavic Open pro's laced to Record hubs.

 

For wheels, weight is farmore important than the aerodynamics but light weight aero wheels do have advantages.  They just cost too much

[/quote']

 

Go Lefty - see table below - you are correct about frontal area and aero hemet but I think you underestimate the significance of aero wheels (front particularly)

 

I would go for aero over weight any day (within reason) due to the speed at which we ride and the relatively small effect weight has on the power needed to produce that speed.

 

The aero shopping list, ranked by Kyle (13), shows possibilities of reducing aerodynamic drag.

The costs are rough estimates; the proportional reduction of aero

drag are relative to a conventional racing cycle and a rider with

the usual racing clothing (racing shorts, jersey, cotton socks,

gloves with knit backs) and without a helmet; the time gained is

relative to a 40 km time trial at approximately 37 km/h - elapsed

time 1 h 5 min. At higher speeds the time gained becomes smaller

because of the shorter riding time.

 

 

Aero Shopping List	Approx. Cost	Aerodynamic Advantage	Time saved over 40 km	Costs per % of Aerodynamic Advantage
Part	DM	%	seconds	DM/%
Remove water bottle and cage	0	2,8	26	0
Tape over shoe laces	0	0,8	7	0
Pump under top tube instead of in front of seat tube	0	0,8	7	0
Shave the legs	0	0,6	5	0
Remove the small chain ring	0	0,3	3	0
Fill the front tire gap at the rim	2	0,2	2	10
Benotto Aero bottle with cage	30	1,6	15	19
Smooth nylon socks	8	0,4	4	20
Pearl lzumi lycra shoe covers	32	1,4	13	23
Aero helmet. ANSI approved. Bell Stratos.	140	5,2	47	27
Aero front wheel: Araya aero rim, 28 Hoshi bladed spokes, Dura Ace hub, Avocet 190 g tire	180	4,8	44	38
One-piece skin suit, short sleeves and legs	180	3,2	29	56
Aero rear wheel: as above, but 32 spokes	90	2,0	18	45
Aero brakes and levers, Dia Compe AGC 300	200	2,0	18	100
Gloves with Lycra backs	24	0,2	2	120
Disk wheel in front	1000	7,2	66	140
Clipless pedals	240	1,0	9	240
Disk wheel in back	1000	3,6	33	280
Cinelli aero bar	80	0,2	2	400
Edco Competition Aero crank set	250	0,6	5	420
Shimano Sante aero Schaltung	320	0,4	4

 

[TitusTi]

But which is lighter?

[GoLefty!!]

Aerodynamic wheels are one of the biggest marketing successing that we cyclist have lapped up.

 

The designers throw number at us and we go  wow...

 

But the basic principals of aerodyanmics remain unchanged. Frontal area still governs the ultimate aero performance. All the smoothing of airflow of the rim is churned up by the spokes a they move from 3o'clock to 9 o'clock' date=' thereafter the relative velocity of each drops and it plays less of a roll.

 

The biggest gains that avergae Joe can make is to get leaner,  and thus get lower on the bike.

 

Wear a helmet that's aerodynamic.

 

These have more of an effect on your ultimate speed than whether you ride ZIpp 404 or Mavic Open pro's laced to Record hubs.

 

For wheels, weight is farmore important than the aerodynamics but light weight aero wheels do have advantages.  They just cost too much

[/quote']

Go Lefty - see table below - you are correct about frontal area and aero hemet but I think you underestimate the significance of aero wheels (front particularly)

I would go for aero over weight any day (within reason) due to the speed at which we ride and the relatively small effect weight has on the power needed to produce that speed.

The aero shopping list, ranked by Kyle (13), shows possibilities of reducing aerodynamic drag. The costs are rough estimates; the proportional reduction of aero drag are relative to a conventional racing cycle and a rider with the usual racing clothing (racing shorts, jersey, cotton socks, gloves with knit backs) and without a helmet; the time gained is relative to a 40 km time trial at approximately 37 km/h - elapsed time 1 h 5 min. At higher speeds the time gained becomes smaller because of the shorter riding time.

Aero Shopping List	Approx. Cost	Aerodynamic Advantage	Time saved over 40 km	Costs per % of Aerodynamic Advantage
Part	DM	%	seconds	DM/%
Remove water bottle and cage	0	2,8	26	0
Tape over shoe laces	0	0,8	7	0
Pump under top tube instead of in front of seat tube	0	0,8	7	0
Shave the legs	0	0,6	5	0
Remove the small chain ring	0	0,3	3	0
Fill the front tire gap at the rim	2	0,2	2	10
Benotto Aero bottle with cage	30	1,6	15	19
Smooth nylon socks	8	0,4	4	20
Pearl lzumi lycra shoe covers	32	1,4	13	23
Aero helmet. ANSI approved. Bell Stratos.	140	5,2	47	27
Aero front wheel: Araya aero rim, 28 Hoshi bladed spokes, Dura Ace hub, Avocet 190 g tire	180	4,8	44	38
One-piece skin suit, short sleeves and legs	180	3,2	29	56
Aero rear wheel: as above, but 32 spokes	90	2,0	18	45
Aero brakes and levers, Dia Compe AGC 300	200	2,0	18	100
Gloves with Lycra backs	24	0,2	2	120
Disk wheel in front	1000	7,2	66	140
Clipless pedals	240	1,0	9	240
Disk wheel in back	1000	3,6	33	280
Cinelli aero bar	80	0,2	2	400
Edco Competition Aero crank set	250	0,6	5	420
Shimano Sante aero Schaltung	320	0,4	4

 

I would have thought the table credible if tehy had left out the 5sec hain from sahved legs.

There is plenty of aerodynamic data availabel on the web on studies conducted to understand the effectsof hair, or other rough surfaces on overall drag and in most studies the effect of hair cannot be measured. Not sure where this study was derived from but I view it with suspicion.

 

An aero wheel is only effective if the cumulative effects of aero tuning elsewhere result in a nett reduction in drag. Merely fitting a aero wheelset does little simply because the air flow is being disrupted up stream.

 

If you want to reuce drag then sure an aer front wheel helps but then this must be combined with fitting the bottles to the seat tube, using a larger diameter seattube, aero tubes on the bike, aer stays.

 

The biggest gain any cyclist can make aerodynamically is too reduce their frontal area.

 

- sit lower on the bike at the fron ie lower handle bars

- close the area ahead of your chest.

- wear an aero helmet since this governs airflow over the rest of your body.

 

Fitting aero wheels, handle bars and stem as well as an aero fork become secondary to these gains but the cost of making these gains increases exponentially.

[pastapouch]

But which is lighter?

 

titus, it wouldn;t matter if its done on a rather flat route. So if the majority of you'r rides gonna be on flattish terrain , pick aero. For RSA races rather go aero. I don't think there are significant climbs to really make a difference by using the lightest wheelsets.

[TitusTi]

I meant the watches not the wheels, who really cares about the wheels anyway?

[Prince]

Cervelo i agree with you. RSA climbs cannot be compared to the mountain passes in Europe. Our races are really rolling hills not actual climbs in the true cycling sense, which means aero before weight.

[GoLefty!!]

and what about the wind?

or the lack of density in the high veld air...

[TNT1]

 

 

I would have thought the table credible if tehy had left out the 5sec hain from sahved legs...............

 

 

WEll, there's that, and the fact that this study seems to come out of 1988 or so... they use Shimano Sante... released in 1987, and disapperaed about the same...

 

Technology has changed...