XTR vs XT vs Mavic

[rad006]

And cost SPLAT?

[splat]

I dont know.

Rock is building up a similar pair (already had rims, and got hubs from CRC). Perhaps ask him.

 

Imagine this set with blue hubs and nipples to match our Anthems...

[rad006]

It would look so hot.... thats why I wish I could afford the candy bros cobolt wheels...

[MintSauce]

 

custom' date=' custom, custom.....but I don't think anyone's listening [/quote']

 

I am, but why would it be any different to getting XT wheels?  Can you go CHEAPER and get a better lighter setup?  (No Chris King punts please..)

 

 

I'm pretty sure a setup with Hopes, DT Revolution spokes and Stan's rims would get under 1500grams and be cheaper than Crossmax.

 

If you're not worried about cost, I've heard of builds that go as low as mid-1300g disc specific and sub-1200g for V-brakes using Tune Mag hubs.

 

 

 

Maybe but I dont know which is better at the end of the

day a factory wheel is a safe bet to work well and last long

 

 

I don't thing there's anything in it really. A custom set is just simpler and cheaper to maintain since it uses normal spokes. Granted availibility of special spokes(ie mavic) are not really a problem anymore

 

 

 

 

[MintSauce]

 

custom' date=' custom, custom.....but I don't think anyone's listening [/quote']

 

Hope Pro II Hubs with DT Comp spokes and ZTR Olympic rims (with red alu nipples for good measure).

OK, the alu nipples dont add much for durability...

 

 

Very, very pretty

 

 

 

 

[rock]

looks like my new wheels, except the hubs the wrong colour

[rad006]

ROck how much???

[GoLefty!!]

ok lets see,

 

OF CRC, Hope PRo II hubs will set you back. R2500 for the set, incl VAT.

The Rims will cost you R1600-00 locally.

Revs are around R16 per spoke x64 = R1024

Labour per wheel = R600

 

Thats a cool ZAR5724. Way cheaper than +max and more repairable.

If you want to go for the ZTR Race rims then add ZAR 2800-00 to the cost above. o give you ZAR8524-00.

 

just goes to show what bad value the +max is.

The XTR wheels is about R7500-00 and I reckon its better than most of the "hand built wheels" so thats better value.

The rim also takes any tyre and you can convert to tubeless with some sealant. No need for rim tape or strips.

 

The more I think about the XTR wheel, the better it gets

[Johan Bornman]

The OP asks about wheels and then eliminates hand-built wheels for no apparent reason. I hope he is simply misinformed, since there is no better long-term deal than good hand-built wheels from standard components. However, these don't shine as much and don't score any coffee-shop points. Admittedly that could be a reason for going for something fancier.

 

The topic then went onto XTR vs XT. Lefty described the XTRs. In my opinion the few molecules of Scandium that's thrown in there is meaningless. It buys youy a little sticker but nothing practical. Rims are stiff enough, so making them stiffer serves no purpose. Aluminium with Scandium or Vanadium in the alloy basically weighs the same. The world Scandium production is something like 200kg per year and I can assure you there is not more than a few molecules of the stuff in these wheels. Just enough to earn the sticker.

 

If the XT wheel (I have not examined an XT wheel, only looked at the exploded diagram and Shimano brochure on it) are similar except for the

 

a) Scandium in the rim

b) titanium on the freehub body and

c) boron steel races 

 

and, the XTR wheel is much more expensive, I'll go for the XT.

 

Both these hubs are the same. Apparently the XTR hub has a diffrent type of steel race. Both have labyrinth and wiper seals and more, but smaller bearings than previous Shimano products. Nice design.

 

What I find ironic is that no-one has noticed that suddenly it is OK to have nipples at the rims again. Yesterday's reasoning that the weight savings on "rotational mass" by putting nipples at the hub seem to have been forgotten. Or perhaps the physics as we know it has been changed by the quarks escaping from the Swiss particle accellerator.

 

Also, Shimano's "revolutionary" design of hooking spokes into the rim has also been forgotten. It was another rubbish idea that solved no problem I could think of.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[AndreZA]

What I find ironic is that no-one has noticed that suddenly it is OK to have nipples at the rims again. Yesterday's reasoning that the weight savings on "rotational mass" by putting nipples at the hub seem to have been forgotten. Or perhaps the physics as we know it has been changed by the quarks escaping from the Swiss particle accellerator.

 

 

JB, have you seen some Industry Nine spokes and hubs? The spoke is basically a long bolt the goes throught the rim and screws into the hub. No nipples.

 

The hub

 

http://www.mtbtrailreview.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/429023997_2cd404c724.jpg

 

 

The spokes

 

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b368/SSinGA/P1050220.jpg

 

 

Mampara2008-09-12 06:35:36

[NotSoBigBen]

For anyone else that thought a 'quark' was the sound a sick duck makes, no it aint

Any of a group of six elementary particles having electric charges of a magnitude one-third or two-thirds that of the electron, regarded as constituents of all hadrons

It does say hadron and no I dunno what that is either

[MintSauce]

 

Rims are stiff enough' date=' so making them stiffer serves no purpose.

[/quote']

 

 

You make lots of valid points, except this one

 

If they CAN make them stiffer....why not?

 

 

 

[Johan Bornman]

What I find ironic is that no-one has noticed that suddenly it is OK to have nipples at the rims again. Yesterday's reasoning that the weight savings on "rotational mass" by putting nipples at the hub seem to have been forgotten. Or perhaps the physics as we know it has been changed by the quarks escaping from the Swiss particle accellerator.

 

 

JB' date=' have you seen some Industry Nine spokes and hubs? The spoke is basically a long bolt the goes throught the rim and screws into the hub. No nipples.

 

The hub

 

 

 

 

The spokes

 

 

 

 

[/quote']

 

No, I haven't seen this. I foresee two problems:

 

1) The mushroom head on the spoke is the weakest point and doesn't take tension well.

2) How do you turn the spoke to tension the wheel?

 

 

[AndreZA]

 

No' date=' I haven't seen this. I foresee two problems:

 

1) The mushroom head on the spoke is the weakest point and doesn't take tension well.

2) How do you turn the spoke to tension the wheel?

 

 

[/quote']

 

just below the mushroom on the fat part there is a section that is four sided like a normal nipple. When you havea chance, pop into Mike's Bikes and look at the set they have. Ask him how much a custom coloured set costs.

 

 

[Johan Bornman]

Rims are stiff enough' date=' so making them stiffer serves no purpose.

[/quote']


You make lots of valid points, except this one

If they CAN make them stiffer....why not?

 

Because stiff enough is stiff enough.

 

Let me explain. Modern bicycle wheels are stiff enough for anything we throw at them.

 

1) In torsion (We apply on average about 7NM of torque on a rear wheel), the difference in spoke tension from pedalling is in the region of 5% of static spoke tension. It doesn't deform the wheel. Making the rims stiffer therefore serves no purpose. In braking (with hub brakes), the forces are a bit more, but again, with no ill effect to the wheels.

 

2) In cornering, the wheels are subject to NO lateral force (bicycle and motorcycle cornering exerts only radial forces on a wheel). They are already stiff enough to carry our weight and not deflect with any ill effect, so why make them stiffer. Incidentally, a deep section rim is stiffer than a box section by an order magnitude and we don't notice the difference.

 

3) In honking up a hill we apply a small lateral force to the wheel. However, the deflection is less than the space between rim and brake pad. Making it stiffer will achieve nothing.

 

 

Therefore, stiff enough is stiff enough.

 

To use an absurd analogy. Lets make pillow slips stronger and sew them from Kevlar sheeting or.....lets make shoelaces very strong and make them from braided steel cable.

 

Everyday examples abound - make cutlery stronger by forging them from boron steel. Make your office printer stronger by stamping its cover from a sheet of titanium.

 

What purpose do you foresee for stiffer rims?

 

This industry of ours loves the mantra of "lighter, stiffer, better." I question that.

 

 

 

 

 

[Johan Bornman]

 

just below the mushroom on the fat part there is a section that is four sided like a normal nipple. When you havea chance' date=' pop into Mike's Bikes and look at the set they have. Ask him how much a custom coloured set costs.

 

 

[/quote']

Oh dear! They expect you to tension these spokes by turning the opposite end to where the screw thread is! Have they not heard of wind-up? Something doesn't sound right.

 

No need to ask him how much a custom set costs - I am absolutely certain they cannot do my favourite colour.