BBJSportGuy Posted November 27, 2006 Share Hi Guys and Gals SAfm has started a programme on Saturday and Sundays giving out free training tips and programmes with the South African National team coach, Tony Harding. Tony will be giving us a programme towards the Argus to get us to ride our best time. If you have the time and the inclination, it's well worth a listen. Also, please go to my new blog, http://towardstheargus.blogspot.com and give some feedback, tips and advice there. Thanks Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warped Posted November 27, 2006 Share Welcome Big Bad Jon! I, for one, will follow this series - hope the advice suits a range of levels. I recall with fondness your music and humor on the late night SAFM slot. One thing cycling has done to me (with the early morning rides) is to get me to bed considerably earlier than in those days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBJSportGuy Posted November 27, 2006 Share It will cover as much as I have time for. I will be focusing on beginners, but Tony told us to do 4 hour base rides, 6 days a week for 4 weeks, so it is a bit for the tough guys.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce Posted November 27, 2006 Share Hmmmnnn, 24hour weeks for beginners - good to see our national team is in good hands. (No disrespect but I know a few very well respected coaches that would have a few choice words regarding this training program) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warped Posted November 27, 2006 Share That training regime is a bit tough. Finding four hours a day 6 days a week is stretching it a bit for us working types. Even when on leave I doubt if I'll ride more than 5 days a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBJSportGuy Posted November 27, 2006 Share What do you suggest then, Bruce? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BikeMax Posted November 27, 2006 Share Re arrange these words into a well known phrase.. School Old In all seriousness - this is crazy and unnecesary. There are many very good riders (Bruce included) who train a lot less than this (9-12 hours per week) and achive excellent results (5.30 DC...) Quality and not quantity is the watchword - once you can ride 4 hours then there is not much need for further endurance (the main goal of the sort of volume mentioned here) Riding faster and more comfortably at a faster speed is a better goal and is achieved with less time at a higher intensity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gianni Posted November 27, 2006 Share you guys training for the Tour or what ??The biggest problem most people have, is keeping up with a bunch so surely you should be concentrating on how to STAY with the bunch. E.g. as BieMax says, quality. Of course you need a base but 6 x 4 hours for 6 weeks!! You'll all be gatvol of cycling by week 2...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce Posted November 27, 2006 Share What do you suggest then' date=' Bruce? [/quote'] Not being a coach, I would rather leave it up to real coaches to comment. I have been coached by two very good coaches, Scott Richardson and Peter Wright (aka BikeMax) and I don't think I have ever ridden 24 hours in one week in my cycling career (albeit only 2 years old). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikemonster Posted November 28, 2006 Share BBJSportGuy I have done many Sub-3:30 Argi, and four of them under 3:10 (but never cracked the darn' sub 3:00). Off the bike my "athleticsm" sees me running the Knysna 1/2 in just under 2 hours. I mention that to make it absolutely clear that I am no born athlete. My training programme sees me riding up to 3 times a week. Twice on the week for around 90-120 minutes each and once on the weekend for around 3 hours. Weekend rides are usually Pedalpower races (funrides...hah!) of 80-100km. As a weekend warrior with a job and a family I really do not see any benefit in (or probability of) doing more. The one thing that I have found to be key is to include training at racing intensity, either through having fast friends or weekend racing or training at Killarney racetrack on summer Tuesday evenings. Many cycling coaches talk about riding a lot slowly to get fast. It does not work. Speed does not miraculously arrive - you need to train for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBJSportGuy Posted November 28, 2006 Share I agree with all you have said. The base is there so that speed can come later. If you are not fit enough, you can't climb as hard or sprint as long. You need the base to get going 1st.... That's the logic as I see it and as Tony will explain it. Maybe I didn't explain when I wrote the 1st report. We base, the we do more. Imagine being twice as fit as you are, THEN doing those fast training sessions...... you would leave those guys in your slipstream. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce Posted November 28, 2006 Share I think the point we are questioning is the quantity. Let's say you do 4 hours at IF (Intensity Factor) 0.75, which is the bottom end of endurance intensity (or just above recovery riding intensity) Your training stress score for the day would be: TSS = 4 x 0.75 x 100 = 300 (which you typically wouldn't be fully recovered from the next day). Now lets say you do that 6 times a week then TSS/wk = 1800 You won't find many pro's that can accumulate that kind of training stress week in week out, let alone a beginner or untrained cyclist And this is riding at the absolute bottom end of the endurance level. So, what you'll end up with is someone that can ride slowly for very long periods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BikeMax Posted November 28, 2006 Share I agree with all you have said. The base is there so that speed can come later. If you are not fit enough' date=' you can't climb as hard or sprint as long. You need the base to get going 1st.... That's the logic as I see it and as Tony will explain it. Maybe I didn't explain when I wrote the 1st report. We base, the we do more. Imagine being twice as fit as you are, THEN doing those fast training sessions...... you would leave those guys in your slipstream. Cheers [/quote'] BBJ The concept of base training is well established but also somewhat outdated. Current science supports training at a higher intensity that traditional base, in order to ensure an adaptation takes place and the athlete gets fitter. A traditional LSD ride gives very little benefit except training the athlete to ride for a long time at a slow speed. The majority of riders want to learn to ride faster and climb better. In order to train these systems there is a need for a period of lower intensity riding - but this is still typically at a much higher intensity than you could sustain for 24 hours / week. On top of that, and more importantly, there are not many riders who can tolerate the load you are talking about (even at a very slow pace) for one week and to prescribe this load to a relatively untrained cyclist for 4 consecutive weeks is absolutely crazy. (sore muscles, saddle sores, sore knees, back etc etc, constant fatigue) Moderate load with a gradual increase in intensity and addition of some shorter more race specific intervals will give a better result and a more pleasant cycling experience. Good luck nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wors Posted November 28, 2006 Share I think the point we are questioning is the quantity. Let's say you do 4 hours at IF (Intensity Factor) 0.75' date=' which is the bottom end of endurance intensity (or just above recovery riding intensity) Your training stress score for the day would be: TSS = 4 x 0.75 x 100 = 300 (which you typically wouldn't be fully recovered from the next day). Now lets say you do that 6 times a week then TSS/wk = 1800 You won't find many pro's that can accumulate that kind of training stress week in week out, let alone a beginner or untrained cyclist And this is riding at the absolute bottom end of the endurance level. So, what you'll end up with is someone that can ride slowly for very long periods.[/quote'] How does this TSS work?How much TSS should one be able to recover from in a day and in a week?4x0.75x100=300 seems easy for a single day, but 3x1x100=300 or 2x1.5x100=300 or 1x3x100=300 seem increasingly impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWdeJager Posted November 28, 2006 Share BBJSportGuy ....The one thing that I have found to be key is to include training at racing intensity' date=' either through having fast friends or weekend racing or training at Killarney racetrack on summer Tuesday evenings. Many cycling coaches talk about riding a lot slowly to get fast. It does not work. Speed does not miraculously arrive - you need to train for it. [/quote'] I agree with you 100% bikemonster - try the Wednesday racing at Killarney and you might just crack that sub 3 Argus next year. What start group do you ride in at PPA funrides? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce Posted November 28, 2006 Share http://www.cyclingpeakssoftware.com/power411/http://www.midweekclub.ca/powerFAQ.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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