FOURFEET Posted January 5, 2009 Author Posted January 5, 2009 My my my am I surprised to see that a few grown ups also visit this chat room. Excellent.
FOURFEET Posted January 5, 2009 Author Posted January 5, 2009 The limit set to entries causes a lot of hard feelings. You have to pay x amount why not devide proportionally. What about Junior girls Under 16 Girls, etc which are also neglected. Pay Something like R 600, R 400 R 200 first three places. And still pay the others more. At R 50 000 plus prize money is it that much asked?
Christie Posted January 5, 2009 Posted January 5, 2009 To have a proper race, I feel 20 riders are needed. Its debatable, but imo less than that it is not proper racing - no bunch tactics, no pacing etc. Prizes don't have to be money, A different colour medal and/or some of the lucky draw prizes could be given for 1/2/3. R600/6 team members don't even cover the race entry. For me, in the Vets cats it is about recognition - one of the things that suck big time about the Kremetart is that the Vet men don't get prizes for stage wins. In 2007, the VA time for stage 1 was faster than the elite men's time, the VA bunch was bigger, too. Even a handshake and a bag of oranges is better than nothing.
Dicky DQ Posted January 5, 2009 Posted January 5, 2009 And the ZAR 400.00 means what in the big picture????
buckstopper Posted January 5, 2009 Posted January 5, 2009 You will not get 20 in any of the u16/jun/vet ladies cats. Combining them would produce good racing, even in the 80km races. I think this would be a good way to attract girls (and ladies) into racing. Currently they (u16/jun girls) get demoralised when they go off the back of the u16 boys at the first attack, and then have to spend 2 hours riding alone. The standard would be quite even among the top Vet/junior ladies imho.
Christie Posted January 5, 2009 Posted January 5, 2009 If the numbers are too small, a plan must be made. Combining them sounds like a good idea, with prizes for 123 of the combined group.
Yang Posted January 5, 2009 Posted January 5, 2009 Prizes don't have to be money' date=' A different colour medal and/or some of the lucky draw prizes could be given for 1/2/3. R600/6 team members don't even cover the race entry. For me, in the Vets cats it is about recognition - one of the things that suck big time about the Kremetart is that the Vet men don't get prizes for stage wins. In 2007, the VA time for stage 1 was faster than the elite men's time, the VA bunch was bigger, too. Even a handshake and a bag of oranges is better than nothing.[/quote'] Agreed- this makes sense! Vets don't depend on racing for their livelihood. Nor do schoolchildren. In the hierarchy of needs money for someone like a cyclist is either predominantly a security need (ie, your young pros who are cycling for a living), or a status need (recognition from your peers for being the main peanut uit die pakkie in that age group and bragging rights), and self actualisation, when the motivator is to do better than the last time and to keep improving, well done to everybody else. Imagine the scene: a group of young pros seeing their prize money whittled down by a bunch of cyclist prowannabeswhohavehadtheiturnandarenowearningbigbucks. Sad man, sad. Like Christie says, be satisfied with the medals, the backslaps, the tightly sculpted quads and glutes, your own pat on the back, and go back to work on Monday. Oganisers should take note- keep your precious money for the pros, but give the recognition to the other cats- its largely free- like at the Amashova.
Christie Posted January 5, 2009 Posted January 5, 2009 While we are on the topic, I aslo think the elite men/ladies' prize money should be cept within bounds, to encourage them to go race in Europe. R20k for first place, or the R100k for the Liberty crit series is way over the top, and sends out the wrong message. Aslo does not make a lot of sense with 3 or 4 serious teams competing. Rather give money from 1st to 20th place, perhaps, for the "local" races, & leave the big money for races like WorldsView & Giro del Capo where international teams compete as well. Christie2009-01-05 21:16:56
Sean Badenhorst Posted January 5, 2009 Posted January 5, 2009 I still think they should divide races into ability and not age. The PPA does this in the Western Cape and it seems to work well.
lowracer Posted January 5, 2009 Posted January 5, 2009 1 question : why take it up here? (I could have been nasty and said 2 questions, of which one is : who cares? as you should ride for fun, not for the money. ) Most organisers does not read this. if you actually want something done about it, take it up with the csa, and the organisers. The cyclists should take their ideas to the csa, (for example first 20 places, from the bottom up, include development riders, smaller divisions, per seeding category, etc) who SHOULD formulate a compensation/reward structure in order to promote cycling, and pass that through to the organisers of races. yes, there will besome unhappiness, and mess ups, but you should learn from your mistakes, and improve the payment structure the next year just throwing ideas, moans and gripes around here is not going to make any difference to next years races. getting the csa working for their 10% of the prize money for affiliated races on the callendar and passing the feedback to the race organisers, and assisting them in creating a fair renumeration structure to promote cycling from the bottom up can create the desired results.
Nialls101 Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 I agree with Christie's comments. Another way to get more vet's ladies to race is to get race organizes to offer free entry for the top 10 ladies to event the following year. This should help get the numbers up to a point where there are enough ladies compete for prize money. I've heard there are sometimes only +-5 riders in some vet lady cats. I think it's unfair for such a small group to get prize money so easily while other vet cats are much more competitive, like the VA-VC men cats.
MTB Kenya Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 At the 94.7 there was about 40 or 50 ladies in the vets category. The prize money was R2000. Very fair IMO
Spinnekop Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 So.....you want serious adult stuff.........Let me see....... The limit set to entries causes a lot of hard feelings. You have to pay x amount why not devide proportionally. What about Junior girls Under 16 Girls' date=' etc which are also neglected. Pay Something like R 600, R 400 R 200 first three places. And still pay the others more. At R 50 000 plus prize money is it that much asked? [/quote'] This culture of paying money to people that perform in categories other than the "top" categories is 100% South African........ Moenie worrie nie my kind.........'n B is nogsteeds goed.....ek sal vir jou 'n sweetie koop....(Die donner kort 'n pakslae oordat hy gesit en Sega het instede van leer sodat hy 'n A kon kry!!!!!!!) As a Vet, yes.....it is nice to get a bit of pocket money.....but I think if you are competitive.....and WANT to race to beat people.....why not beat the BEST and not your age cat.......i.e. Vets ladies or Vets Men.....I mean......."Yeah.....I won 1st place for the Vets Ladies........".....now what? Still not fast enough to win the Elite ladies....you have to use men's bunches to get the pace up...... So you won the Vets ladies or what ever........BIG DEAL......it is a PERSONAL accomplishment.....if you need money to feel accomplished, you are in the wrong place boet...... Money is paid to PROFESSIONAL PEOPLE.....they do it every day.......they work hard for it......not that the other age cats do not work hard....but IMO I think payouts should be reserved for the pro bunch....Give recognition or a bag of oranges to the cat winners.... What happens in Europe and the rest of the world......you don't win a race, you don't eat......go and ask Robbie Hunter about not eating and sleeping on the floor.........It just gives you motivation...... That said..... While we are on the topic' date=' I also think the elite men/ladies' prize money should be cept within bounds, to encourage them to go race in Europe. R20k for first place, or the R100k for the Liberty crit series is way over the top, and sends out the wrong message. Aslo does not make a lot of sense with 3 or 4 serious teams competing. Rather give money from 1st to 20th place, perhaps, for the "local" races, & leave the big money for races like WorldsView & Giro del Capo where international teams compete as well. [/quote'] The prize money in SA is THAT good that we will NEVER have good international riders......because they can make a decent living of what is offered local...... Have a look at the Belgies.......they STRIVE to be the BEST and do not bitch and moan when they don't get prize money because they did not win the race..... In all......THIS IS YOUR ANSWER.........and only THEN can you brag or claim your MONEY............. I still think they should divide races into ability and not age. The PPA does this in the Western Cape and it seems to work well.
Tumbleweed Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 i thought "serious adult stuff" was the stuff to gets back in brown paper bags. very disappointed, spidey.
AuctionLamb Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 So.....you want serious adult stuff.........Let me see....... The limit set to entries causes a lot of hard feelings. You have to pay x amount why not devide proportionally. What about Junior girls Under 16 Girls' date=' etc which are also neglected. Pay Something like R 600, R 400 R 200 first three places. And still pay the others more. At R 50 000 plus prize money is it that much asked? [/quote'] This culture of paying money to people that perform in categories other than the "top" categories is 100% South African........ Moenie worrie nie my kind.........'n B is nogsteeds goed.....ek sal vir jou 'n sweetie koop....(Die donner kort 'n pakslae oordat hy gesit en Sega het instede van leer sodat hy 'n A kon kry!!!!!!!) As a Vet, yes.....it is nice to get a bit of pocket money.....but I think if you are competitive.....and WANT to race to beat people.....why not beat the BEST and not your age cat.......i.e. Vets ladies or Vets Men.....I mean......."Yeah.....I won 1st place for the Vets Ladies........".....now what? Still not fast enough to win the Elite ladies....you have to use men's bunches to get the pace up...... So you won the Vets ladies or what ever........BIG DEAL......it is a PERSONAL accomplishment.....if you need money to feel accomplished, you are in the wrong place boet...... Money is paid to PROFESSIONAL PEOPLE.....they do it every day.......they work hard for it......not that the other age cats do not work hard....but IMO I think payouts should be reserved for the pro bunch....Give recognition or a bag of oranges to the cat winners.... What happens in Europe and the rest of the world......you don't win a race, you don't eat......go and ask Robbie Hunter about not eating and sleeping on the floor.........It just gives you motivation...... That said..... While we are on the topic' date=' I also think the elite men/ladies' prize money should be cept within bounds, to encourage them to go race in Europe. R20k for first place, or the R100k for the Liberty crit series is way over the top, and sends out the wrong message. Aslo does not make a lot of sense with 3 or 4 serious teams competing. Rather give money from 1st to 20th place, perhaps, for the "local" races, & leave the big money for races like WorldsView & Giro del Capo where international teams compete as well. [/quote'] The prize money in SA is THAT good that we will NEVER have good international riders......because they can make a decent living of what is offered local...... Have a look at the Belgies.......they STRIVE to be the BEST and do not bitch and moan when they don't get prize money because they did not win the race..... In all......THIS IS YOUR ANSWER.........and only THEN can you brag or claim your MONEY............. I still think they should divide races into ability and not age. The PPA does this in the Western Cape and it seems to work well. Always looking forward to your replies Spiderman!!! Strait to the point......
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