Delgado Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 Can anyone please recommend a good anti seize compound to use on a carbon seatpost/aluminium frame and where is the best place to buy it (Joburg)? ThanksDelgado2009-01-09 04:13:04
TNT1 Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 Carbon post/ally frame should never seize n the first place. Nothing to react...
Delgado Posted January 9, 2009 Author Posted January 9, 2009 Cool thanks B! Had quite a job getting one out of a bike I stripped this morning?
TNT1 Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 Ya, I guess things do get stuck after all. On the Scandium Pinarello, with carbon post I used good old copper slip, same as I have used on all bike assembly for 20 years. No problems with slipping and it never siezed. I'd say go with that then. They sell it as copper compound at Midas these days... Made by Spanjaard... (advisory: JB and the psuedo-scientists will rage against this, but some of us actually live and ride and assemble bikes in the real world, where if it works, in spite of science, use it!)TNT12009-01-09 04:39:58
AndreZA Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 Look for FiberGrip http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=30012
TNT1 Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 trust me, Spanjaard copper compound, cheaper and available everywhere...
Speed Devil Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 I'd also go with copper slip. I also use it on my wheel nuts on my car to prevent to steel nuts from biting into the alloy rims when tightening them.
Johan Bornman Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 Ya' date=' I guess things do get stuck after all. On the Scandium Pinarello, with carbon post I used good old copper slip, same as I have used on all bike assembly for 20 years. No problems with slipping and it never siezed. I'd say go with that then. They sell it as copper compound at Midas these days... Made by Spanjaard...(advisory: JB and the psuedo-scientists will rage against this, but some of us actually live and ride and assemble bikes in the real world, where if it works, in spite of science, use it!)[/quote'] Perhaps a word from a pseudo-scientist: Aluminium reacts freely with the oxygen in the air. Combine naked aluminium with a bit of water as often found between seatposts and seat tubes and you have aluminium oxide. A large molecule that will grip anything, including inert carbon posts in a vice-like grip. That's all, I'm back to assembling and riding bikes in my perfect laboratory. Johan Bornman2009-01-09 11:21:20
Delgado Posted January 9, 2009 Author Posted January 9, 2009 Ya' date=' I guess things do get stuck after all. On the Scandium Pinarello, with carbon post I used good old copper slip, same as I have used on all bike assembly for 20 years. No problems with slipping and it never siezed. I'd say go with that then. They sell it as copper compound at Midas these days... Made by Spanjaard...(advisory: JB and the psuedo-scientists will rage against this, but some of us actually live and ride and assemble bikes in the real world, where if it works, in spite of science, use it!)[/quote'] Perhaps a word from a pseudo-scientist: Aluminium reacts freely with the oxygen in the air. Combine naked aluminium with a bit of water as often found between seatposts and seat tubes and you have aluminium oxide. A large molecule that will grip anything, including inert carbon posts in a vice-like grip. That's all, I'm back to assembling and riding bikes in my perfect laboratory. Ta Johan .....and that's exactly what it felt like when I was removing a carbon post earlier today! I had applied the Shimano Anti Seize compound (white cream/paste) when fitting it yet still battled and was therefore wondering if one needs something unique for use with carbon?
vanniri Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 Ya' date=' I guess things do get stuck after all. On the Scandium Pinarello, with carbon post I used good old copper slip, same as I have used on all bike assembly for 20 years. No problems with slipping and it never siezed. I'd say go with that then. They sell it as copper compound at Midas these days... Made by Spanjaard...(advisory: JB and the psuedo-scientists will rage against this, but some of us actually live and ride and assemble bikes in the real world, where if it works, in spite of science, use it!)[/quote'] Perhaps a word from a pseudo-scientist: Aluminium reacts freely with the oxygen in the air. Combine naked aluminium with a bit of water as often found between seatposts and seat tubes and you have aluminium oxide. A large molecule that will grip anything, including inert carbon posts in a vice-like grip. That's all, I'm back to assembling and riding bikes in my perfect laboratory. Since you guys seem to have listened to some stuff in school science class (ahh, ahh, if Cindy was just not so darn good looking...), plz help me out. What, if anything, to put between carbon and carbon (seatpost and frame that is)
Johan Bornman Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 Ta Johan .....and that's exactly what it felt like when I was removing a carbon post earlier today! I had applied the Shimano Anti Seize compound (white cream/paste) when fitting it yet still battled and was therefore wondering if one needs something unique for use with carbon? I have my doubts about the use of anti-seize compounds on bicycles. These compounds were designed to prevent seizing in bolts. The compound's active ingredient is copper, a metal with a very small shear modulus compared to steel. In other words, it breaks easily in a twisting motion. When applied to steel in say a wheelnut where you have a large available loosening torque, it works like a charm. By available loosening torque I'm referring to a thick bolt where you can use a big spanner without ill effect. On a seatpost you don't have that luxury. You can easily break the post, frame or seat by twisting it when it doesn't want to budge. Back to the compound. It's non-active ingredient is some sort of grease - soap and oil. When water ingresses into the seat tube and lands on the grease (compound) between the tube and post and, you "pump" that lot up and down a bit, you get an emulsion. This protects the water from evaporating but still allows it to react with the aluminium with the effects I described above. The fact that copper now has a lower shear modulus than the other components is no longer relevant and you have a vice problem, not a weld problem. I don't know what the answer is. At the moment I'm experimenting with dry interfaces. I still have old style bikes with quill stems and these are particularly problematic. The only way to prevent the quill to seize inside the steerer is to periodically (every few months), remove and clean it. If I put copper compound in there, I get quick seizing. In short, anti-seize compounds work where water doesn't play a role and where it can do its job of preventing steel on steel from friction-welding . Lucily we now have threadless steerer tubes with two bolts on the clamps. the joint is thus less movable and does less water pumping. A quill stem is held only at the bottom and the top effectively swings around inside the steerer, acting as a pump. Lots of people confuse the role of so-called carbon compound with anti-seize compound. The two is not the same. Carbon compound is a friction compound or simply put, grease with grit. It prevents sliding. Copper compound prevents friction welding of dry bold/nut interfaces.
Johan Bornman Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 Since you guys seem to have listened to some stuff in school science class (ahh' date=' ahh, if Cindy was just not so darn good looking...), plz help me out. What, if anything, to put between carbon and carbon (seatpost and frame that is)[/quote'] That's an easy one. If your post doesn't slip, put nothing in there. If your post does slip, use one of the carbon friction compounds. It's grease with grit. Now send me Cindy's number please.
porky Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 /QUOTE] In short' date=' anti-seize compounds work where water doesn't play a role and where it can do its job of preventing steel on steel from friction-welding . [/quote'] Hmm, I hear what you are saying, but we use coppaslip when we reassemble air/water seperators and traps - if we dont, they never come undone, and this is in a moist enviroment.? Fair enough its not carbon, but often the fastening is between aluminium and steel.If it works here, why not on a seatpost? Not testing your theory mate, just a wondering.? porky2009-01-09 12:58:33
Johan Bornman Posted January 10, 2009 Posted January 10, 2009 Hmm' date=' I hear what you are saying, but we use coppaslip when we reassemble air/water seperators and traps - if we dont, they never come undone, and this is in a moist enviroment.? Fair enough its not carbon, but often the fastening is between aluminium and steel.If it works here, why not on a seatpost? Not testing your theory mate, just a wondering.? [/quote'] First-hand and repeated experience like this is useful. I'll give you my interpretation and tell me if my assumptions are right. 1) The interface is rigid and doesn't "pump" water. You don't say if you apply the coppaslip to bolts or two other interfaces. I assume whatever it is, they remain fixed against each other and don't move. In contrast, a seatpost is a dynamic joint. It is clamped at the top only and sitting, pedalling and road bumps cause the unclamped part to move in the seat tube and mix the grease and water into an emulsion. My guess is that your interface doesn't do that and even if there is water intrusion it never turns the compound into an emulsion. Just a guess. 2) Secondly, I guess that these components are robust and can take a bit of force when disassembling. Not much, but more than the shear strength of the copper. The fact is that seatposts are problematic whether you apply compound or not and I am leaning towards a dry fit for the reasons explained above.
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