can u believe this

[Cradleresident]

Here the full ken story

About 2 years ago (and still is) the cyclist issue was totally out of hand in the cradle. An email was sent to residents and from the response it was clear

that 99% of residents had issues with cyclists. I then set up a meeting with Giovanni and a guy called Charl from the traffic department. At this meeting it was acknowledged that these problems were serious and things had to be done.

A few things that were agreed upon:

 Giovanni would send people out here, and if clubs or groups were breaking the rules they would be dealt with.

All races would be go through the Muldersdrift police forum

If races were not run correctly, there would be a recourse not allowing the event organiser to hold another race in the area.

There would only be a few races a year in the area, instead of a race every second weekend.

Residents would be made aware of races

No road closures

And then the normal stuff, passing on the message that riding 3 or 4 in the road is not on, must ride in the cycle lane ect.

I then sent an email out to the community saying that Giovanni was serious about sorting the issues out.

The bottom line is nothing was sorted out and in my opinion Giovanni was just hoping this would all go away.

Races in the area are organised by any Tom Dick and Harry.

There were three races held on the same day last week in our area.

The Syringa spa road was closed. This is a main route

I could not even get out my gate and had to stay home.

In other words there was total chaos.

So that?s the history

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The present

Think bike has taken it upon themselves  to appoint themselves as traffic cops, stopping motorists so that cyclists can now have right of way. This is illegal. We are now supposed to bow down to self appointed traffic cops for the pleasure of a few.

I sent an email to think bike about this and I cc Ken.

A few emails went back and forth between Paul Young and the bottom line was that he didn?t acknowledge any of my issues.

An email from Ken SENT TO ME was by mistake sent to Paul Young (Ken is not that computer literate). Ken hit the ?reply to all? by mistake.

A few issues here.

A private email was posted on the forum without the permission of the sender.

Only a part of the email was posted - I assume to stir up as much emotion as possible.

From this a lot of emails were sent to ken, even death threats. We do not even have to talk about the forum.

Some misconceptions about Ken

He does not shoot lions. Ken is a conservationist who saves lions at his own cost from all over Africa. (running an aeroplane is expensive) He has a private lion reserve where these lions live.

Ken motto is courtesy costs nothing. The sticker is on his car.

The cyclists  that Ken knocked over was not Ken going for them, but the cyclists own stupidity.

Ken could of explained it better, but the email was never meant to go to the forum.

I myself have also knocked a cyclist over, not on purpose, but because of the cyclists stupidly.

Ken is also not someone to stand down and be run away from issues.

So the conclusion is.

All posts on the forum have been copied.

Charges have been laid with the police and the copy of the thread has been given to his lawyers. If you know Ken, you can expect a call.

Those who threatened legal action against Ken, you are very welcome to proceed.

As you know all IP addresses are logged.

 

Mark Thijs has stepped in and made the effort to sort this all out. (Good luck for the operation)

A meeting is going to be set up when he is back and few things from our side are:

We want minutes of the meeting

Those attending the meeting must be serious about sorting out the issues.

There must be recourse if issues are not addressed.

 

Last thing

By looking at the comments on the thread, these are the same guys that ride through here. Do you think these guys obey the rules and act with respect to the residents? Remember you are a guest here.

for every distasteful comment, it just gives us one more reason to not want these people here.

No one is and never will advocate riding cyclists over, but we can and will make life very difficult for any cyclist riding through here. After awhile hopefully, cyclists will then get the message and go and ride somewhere else, and make those residents lives a misery.

But let?s see how the meeting goes and hopefully the outcome will be ?Cyclists are welcome?

[Moab]

Cradleresident... Interesting comment and thank you for your detailed reply.

 

I have met Mark and he is a great person - sure he can help with this.

 

One thing that concerns me is that you mention that cyclists were hit because of their own stupidity. Please can you give more details? I ask because I was recently hit by a car on Grosvenor road despite my keeping as far left as possible and obeying laws to the extreme. I sometimes think people consider us on the roads as stupidity and that motorists use "stupidity" as an excuse.

[MoreTrails]

The fact that there is a claim of hitting 2 cyclists is scary, but to see this guy Ken has now gone and bought a 2m cattle prod to stir up the situation - well thats crazy.

 

Cradleresident, I can understand the frustration of the bike races and not being able to move through the area. But one this is for sure:

 

YOU 'FRIEND' KEN IS RIGHT WANKER AND DESERVES WHAT EVER COMES HIS WAY!

 

[Cradleresident]

Did you read the whole email. Its guys like you, that is going to make our cause all that much stronger. Problem is that their are a lot of cyclysts that want to ride in the area and guys like you taint all cyclysts.

Why is it that when cyclysts are more than four in a group that get so brave and so arrogant.

[Guest Big H]

Did you read the whole email. Its guys like you' date=' that is going to make our cause all that much stronger. Problem is that their are a lot of cyclysts that want to ride in the area and guys like you taint all cyclysts.

Why is it that when cyclysts are more than four in a group that get so brave and so arrogant.

[/quote']

 

Cradle Resident, the Cradle is public domain and does not belong to a bunch of quant boozy arty Englishmen who think they own the place. The road were and are built by TAX PAYERS money, not your own.

 

If laws are being broken, deal with it, do not threaten other people with 2m cattle prods, and if you threaten people with thos cattle prods expect a bloody nose. Not even your lawyers will get you out of this.

 

Stop acting like your famous local resident ..... mrs Ples!!!!!!!!  

[Nancy Drew]

Why can't we all just get along?

 

Ken's right about one thing Courtesy costs nothing but it's something that is sorely lacking on our roads, between all road users on 2 wheels and 4

 

 

 

 

[Guest Agteros]

I agree Nancy!

 

The other thing I'd like to know is how many of the people out here on this thread threatning all kinds of things, and making stupid comments are actually regular users of the road in the said area.

 

So, all of those who has no interest in this area (whether road user, or resident), why don't you keep your vitriol to yourself? PLEASE! All you are doing is muddying the water for other people. YOU ARE NOT HELPING ANYBODY!

 

Other thing, cradleresident is correct about a lot of races being held in that area: This coming weekend (What I know about):

 

Sat morn: Afriman duathlon: short flavour: ~ 30km cycle

Sat afternoon: CGC Interclub Champs ~60km cycle

Sunday morn: Afriman duathlon: long flavour - ~ 80km cycle)

 

Are the people organising races not abusing/ over using/ exploiting the said area?

[Guest Big H]

I agree Nancy!

 

The other thing I'd like to know is how many of the people out here on this thread threatning all kinds of things' date=' and making stupid comments are actually regular users of the road in the said area.

 

So, all of those who has no interest in this area (whether road user, or resident), why don't you keep your vitriol to yourself? PLEASE! All you are doing is muddying the water for other people. YOU ARE NOT HELPING ANYBODY!

 

Other thing, cradleresident is correct about a lot of races being held in that area: This coming weekend (What I know about):

 

Sat morn: Afriman duathlon: short flavour: ~ 30km cycle

Sat afternoon: CGC Interclub Champs ~60km cycle

Sunday morn: Afriman duathlon: long flavour - ~ 80km cycle)

 

Are the people organising races not abusing/ over using/ exploiting the said area?

[/quote']

 

Agteros, Gautrans is spending a lot of money, Tax Payers money, NOT residents of the Cradle's money, to impove cycle lanes in the Cradle. The residents cannot lay claim to the area being their own. I cycle in the area when I visit South Africa. I do have an interest in the area and know the area and many of it's residents very well.

[levett]

Ken motto is courtesy costs nothing. The sticker is on his car.

Do you think these guys obey the rules and act with respect to the residents? Remember you are a guest here.

but we can and will make life very difficult for any cyclist riding through here.

Cradleresident - just a couple of points:

 

- All cyclists should obey the rules of the road (all of them) - no arguement there, and should be courtious to other road users (as other road users should be to cyclists!) My experiences are that, here, no road users are courtious to any other road user! Adopting this philosophy would reduce accidents in general!

 

- Cyclists riding on the the road are not 'guests' in your area - they are legitimate road users, with the same status, and rights, as every other road user (these are not private roads, they are public roads!) and have every right to use the roads (within the law)

 

- You have no right to make it difficult for cyclists to use the public roads (as you have no right to try to prevent any other road users from using any public road they wish (within the law)

 

- It is sad to say that some cyclists do not obey the laws of the road, think they own the road, and are not courtious to other road users (but then it would be difficult to say this is an exclusive trait of cyclists, and that the same does not apply to some motorcyclists, car drivers, truck drivers, and taxi drivers - are you going to 'make life very difficult' for all modes of transport in YOUR area (based on the premis that some are guilty, therefore all must be guilty?)

[Guest Big H]

And even if I only cycle there for times a year for the two weeks we visit I will not feel safe to know Ken the Trout Farmer aptly supported by his buddy Garth is lurking somewhere with his cattle prod!!!!!!!!

[Guest Big H]

Threatening about every post being "IP Logged" reminds me of the old Lonestar vs South African Cycling Federation saga where SACF were furiously trying to identify the character Lonestar who were having a go at various SACF members. He was never identified and never brought to book despite their efforts and will remain un-identified like Zorro for ever and ever!!!!!!!!

[IanJ]

And even if I only cycle there for times a year for the two weeks we visit I will not feel safe to know Ken the Trout Farmer aptly supported by his buddy Garth is lurking somewhere with his cattle prod!!!!!!!!

 

Big H, please go build some roads in Angola or something, you are just stirring here for the sake of it. You know very well that the residents have some valid points. You make unfounded claims here about Garth but he hasn't threatened anyone.

 

Yes it was stupid of Ken to threaten to ride over cyclists but that was a private email and the Hubbers who came on here and made threats and took other senseless action are no better, you have just lowered yourselves to the same level.

 

I have sent CradleResident a pm and like chucky (Mark) I am prepared to meet with the residents and see if something can be sorted out. There has to be some kind of middle ground but it will require some manner of tolerance on the part of all concerned.

 

I for one would certainly not be happy with a race going past my gates at least once every weekend and sometimes more than once, not to mention the numerous training rides that take place on the same roads and lets face it those rides often do abuse the rules of the road. Big H made the comment that the roads were built by the taxpayers and he is correct but that does not mean that any one group can monopolise the roads to the exclusion of another. Then of course there is the matter of litter which we all know is a big problem in road races, the people living in this area have to bear the direct consequences of this.

 

I would suggest that unless you have anything constructive to add to this matter then rather refrain from making threats and childish remarks. This only inflames the situation.

 

I am also going to contact chucky to see if I can assist him in any way in getting some sort of dialgoue going.

 

 

IanJ2009-09-18 09:04:55

[Guest Big H]

And even if I only cycle there for times a year for the two weeks we visit I will not feel safe to know Ken the Trout Farmer aptly supported by his buddy Garth is lurking somewhere with his cattle prod!!!!!!!!

 

Big H' date=' please go build some roads in Angola or something, you are just stirring here for the sake of it. You know very well that the residents have some valid points. You make unfounded claims here about Garth but he hasn't threatened anyone.

 

Yes it was stupid of Ken to threaten to ride over cyclists but that was a private email and the Hubbers who came on here and made threats and took other senseless action are no better, you have just lowered yourselves to the same level.

 

I have sent CradleResident a pm and like chucky (Mark) I am prepared to meet with the residents and see if something can be sorted out. There has to be some kind of middle ground but it will require some manner of tolerance on the part of all concerned.

 

I for one would certainly not be happy with a race going past my gates at least once every weekend and sometimes more than once, not to mention the numerous training rides that take place on the same roads and lets face it those rides often do abuse the rules of the road. Big H made the comment that the roads were built by the taxpayers and he is correct but that does not mean that any one group can monopolise the roads to the exclusion of another. Then of course there is the matter of litter which we all know is a big problem in road races, the people living in this area have to bear the direct consequences of this.

 

I would suggest that unless you have anything constructive to add to this matter then rather refrain from making threats and childish remarks. This only inflames the situation.

 

I am also going to contact chucky to see if I can assist him in any way in getting some sort of dialgoue going.

 

 

[/quote']

Ian, I do not really appreciate your condescending and patronising tone and it is NOT appreciated. Go on your peace mission and see if you can attain anything. I know the Cradle Dwellers, they are very much like the hillbillies of Kentucky.

[Barend de Arend]

I suggest we split the problem:

 

1. too many closures for too many races (not just cycling!)

 

2. 4 or 5 or more abreast when the road isn't closed (huge bunches)

 

3. defacating in driveways (apparently...)

 

4. dangerous driving (by cars; residents and others)

 

5. some of the mud-slinging (by everyone)

 

6. incompetence of race organisers (yes, there is this!)

 

7. lack of communication between governing bodies (various sports, council or whatever, residents.)

8. litter (goo wrappers by cyclists, and beer bottles by others)

 

I'd like to thank IanJ and Chucky for wanting to fix the problem, as opposed to throwing fuel on the fire.  It will escalate over time as summer comes.

 

[Cradleresident]

Carry on big H, Carry on.

So to all the others on this site, now you know why we feel like we feel. If thats the way you think about residents, then thats probably the way you ride.

Hillbillys???? Really, ok lets see

You wish you could live out here.

[Barend de Arend]

 

I suggest we split the problem:

 

1. too many closures for too many races (not just cycling!)

 

2. 4 or 5 or more abreast when the road isn't closed (huge bunches)

 

3. defacating in driveways (apparently...)

 

4. dangerous driving (by cars; residents and others)

 

5. some of the mud-slinging (by everyone)

 

6. incompetence of race organisers (yes' date=' there is this!)

 

7. lack of communication between governing bodies (various sports, council or whatever, residents.)

8. litter (goo wrappers by cyclists, and beer bottles by others)

 

I'd like to thank IanJ and Chucky for wanting to fix the problem, as opposed to throwing fuel on the fire.  It will escalate over time as summer comes.

 

[/quote']

 

Forgot to mention: I'm guilty of some of this.   But not number 3.