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Thats another point against them Marius, price fixing in SA is Illegal - its hard to prove but if it can be proved there are dire consequences.

 

How most importers get around this is by having a "reccomended retail price", and of course Retailers (who want to make the most profit as possible) will stick to it - the importer also holds a stick over the retailer saying if you sell below (for eg) 10% off my suggested retail price I have the right to stop supplying you - so effectively you have a whole lot of retailers competing for the same sale, of the same product, at the same price - "price fixing", but via a loophole which makes it legal.

 

I am sure many retailers would sell below the suggested price, but fear having their supply cut off.

 

So the way around it is free trade, (ie) when another retailer (or individual) sources the product legally elsewhere which allows him to buy or sell cheaper and capture a portion of the market.

 

Quite legal, and puts the ball right back into the uncompetitive business court, who generally have grown fat and uncompetitive exploiting a captured market.
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The owner of my local bike shop told me that his cost for a set of carbon cranks was only R100 less than what CWC could flog em to me through the internet for. When he pointed this out to J & J (the importer of Campagnolo' date=' Time etc), they were not prepared to budge on the price.

Unless CWC and others are doing something dodgy (and there is not a shred of evidence offered to prove that they are), I will continue to support them until the likes of J&J change their tune. [/quote']

That is the positive side of having a free market economy. If J&J rips people off  customers will go to competition like CWC, Marvuli & other on-line shops.

 

If people keep paying more out of loyalty, so be it. As far as money goes, for me, price is king. A lot of local bike shops offer poor service, have very inflated egos (we dont look at the manual, we dont need a torque wrench we dont use spoke tension meters etc) and limited technical knowledge.

 

Someone mentioned having a body of a wheel replaced 4 times. Why could it not be fixed the first time? Either the quality of the product is bad, resulting in 3 failures in 4 attempts, of the repair was not done correctly. Just wondering.

 

But in the defence of the local bike shops, it is difficlt to find and retain skilled people who are prepared to work for comparatively low salaries. I would guess that this is a problem in other industries in SA as well.
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The guy is doing grey imports. I know that many of his products certainly don't come through the correct channels. Companies spend a lot of money to get the distribution rights for products' date=' they do all the advertising, and then someone comes and undermines them. Anything bought through him for which there is a local agent will not get the backup from the local guys - they have long since started logging production codes, so they know what originates where. If you buy anything overseas, you won't get local backup either, but where this guy crosses the line is selling in South Africa products for which he does not hold the rights. [/quote']

 

If this was in the US for instance, the agents have no problem backing up any imported products. It is only in SA that the agents have a huge problem.
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Man what a joke' date=' they cant stop online trading. Next thing kalahari.net will get closed down coz it sells new release dvd's for R10 cheaper than musica? ... bu11sh1t.

Also if not Marvulli, then use overseas sites like chainreaction.
[/quote']

 

YIP

 

The best thing of all is that the letter that I received from the lawyer did not even have any contact details on it.

I had to e-mail them back, it was simply an attachment I received on e-mail.

Check my post on the CWC string for the complete story.
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Manufacturers who value their customers will have an international warranty - count about 99% of them.

 

The issue that arises with this' date=' is that the manufacturer will in all cases, leave the warranty issues to his appointed distributor - now in some industries the local distributor will honour the warranty of parallel imports and some (like bike importers) dont.

 

Unfortunately this is a commercial decision - personally I think its short sighted and an indication of an immature industry, but thats the reality.

 

It must also be noted the following - 

 

There is a massive differance between GREY PRODUCTS as often referred to here and PARALLEL IMPORTS.

 

Legally "Grey Imports" are considered products which are imported via an illegal means whereby the local import tax, vat and / or duty is diminished or eliminated on the product, so the importer gains an unfair advantage.

 

"PARALLEL IMPORTS" are legally referred to as "Products imported into a country (where there is an authorised distributor) but via the right channels" (ie) legally and where tax, vat and / or duty is paid and there is no UNFAIR advantage gained.

 

"Parallel imports" are perfectly legal - "Grey Imports" are not for the reason as above.

 

This stands even if the official importer has knowledge of the parallel import or not.

 

 
[/quote']

 

In my letter from the lawyer it said that grey imports and parrallel imports are the same. Somethings not right here.

 

Is there maybe a hubber that is a lawyer that might feel that he would like to give us and CWC and who ever else also imports their own goods a look and help with this.

 
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I suppose the trick here is to ask' date=' are these guys bringing in parralel or grey imports? If it's grey (illegal) phuck them, they shouldn't be. If however they are merely parralel importers then that's ok[/quote']

 

Yup, - legally thats what matters.

 

We at Chris Willemse Cycles bring our stock in legally from authorized wholesaler in <?:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Europe, and we pay our duty and VAT. On most cycle equipment there's not duty, only VAT.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

 

 

 

We here at Marvuli as well, anybody is welcome to request our import liscences and documents if needed.

 

I bought a pair of Diadora cycling shoes about ayear and a half ago for myself from a local bike shop.

I needed some parts for the shoes, a shoe insert that works with the old SPD-R pedals. I probably contacted the agents in SA about...15 times via e-mail. NOT ONE REPLY.

I sent 2 e-mails to overseas stores and in a week I had my inserts. Where's the backup service the Authorized agent is suposed to give, I got none, but now they are trying to firce me to not sell Diadora's in SA as well.
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You buy the polar from a online store' date=' register the product on www.polar.fi , its a legal Polar product and they will not allow bad customer services or country spesific politics.

If something goes wrong and the local distributer give you hazzles, you spam the international customer service with complaints.[/quote']

 

If I'm not mistaken a whime back there was a string on the Hub from someone having problems with Time Pedals, and as far as I can remember they did not get anything right through the agents in SA, they had to contact MR TIME....
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Selling online is not a threat to the local bike shop' date=' but rather its business model.

If I was a LBS and some idiot came and wasted my time asking me a whole lot of questions about my product, only to buy it online, I would be fairly pissed off.

The truth is that cycle retailing is a fairly time-intensive industry, especially when you are dealing with novice clients. The challenge for the bike shop industry is to work out how to charge for this time.

While we're on the topic of buying online, can anyone enlighten me what kind of tax you pay on goods bought from an international site, and are you able to claim the tax paid in the country of origin back from SARS?[/quote']

 

Sure, the only TAX you pay is the official 14% VAT to SARS.

If there are duties applicable (Tax and Duties are not considered the same thing) they will also be levied here, at the port of entry and payable to SARS.

 

In reality, the international company should NOT charge that countries local tax (ie) Vat or GST to customers who are outside of their tax zone (ie) if you are in SA and they are in New York - this is an internationally accepted norm to avoid "double taxation", all countries conform to this and the seller would claim the sale as a non-taxable one in their home tax zone.

 

........Usually, if the retailer is seeking international business they will be aware of this and not charge local tax costs to exported sales.

 

If you have been charged a foreign local tax, you may contact the company and request a refund, my experience is they will usually reverse the tax cost, as in effect it should not be levied.

 

You can not claim foreign tax costs here.It has to be done at the port of export.  
widget2007-05-19 03:28:10
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Selling online is not a threat to the local bike shop' date=' but rather its business model.

If I was a LBS and some idiot came and wasted my time asking me a whole lot of questions about my product, only to buy it online, I would be fairly pissed off.

The truth is that cycle retailing is a fairly time-intensive industry, especially when you are dealing with novice clients. The challenge for the bike shop industry is to work out how to charge for this time.

While we're on the topic of buying online, can anyone enlighten me what kind of tax you pay on goods bought from an international site, and are you able to claim the tax paid in the country of origin back from SARS?[/quote']

 

LBS will never die.

How is it possible for me to buy cycling parts from overseas from a shop cheaper than what the agents in SA sells it to LBS.

How is it possible that I buy my electronics and IT equipment from local suppliers for much less than what it costs overseas.

It is because the importers that bring in IT equipment into SA knows that they are competing against international competition and not only in SA.

Now why cant the cycling agents in SA also sell their goods in the same way?
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My advice to Marvuli: wait until you get a summons to appear in court. Don't react to a lawyers letter via email. This is just very "cheap" tactics to put you off your game.

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Selling online is not a threat to the local bike shop' date=' but rather its business model.

If I was a LBS and some idiot came and wasted my time asking me a whole lot of questions about my product, only to buy it online, I would be fairly pissed off.

The truth is that cycle retailing is a fairly time-intensive industry, especially when you are dealing with novice clients. The challenge for the bike shop industry is to work out how to charge for this time.

While we're on the topic of buying online, can anyone enlighten me what kind of tax you pay on goods bought from an international site, and are you able to claim the tax paid in the country of origin back from SARS?[/quote']

 

LBS will never die.

How is it possible for me to buy cycling parts from overseas from a shop cheaper than what the agents in SA sells it to LBS.

How is it possible that I buy my electronics and IT equipment from local suppliers for much less than what it costs overseas.

It is because the importers that bring in IT equipment into SA knows that they are competing against international competition and not only in SA.

Now why cant the cycling agents in SA also sell their goods in the same way?
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Selling online is not a threat to the local bike shop' date=' but rather its business model.

If I was a LBS and some idiot came and wasted my time asking me a whole lot of questions about my product, only to buy it online, I would be fairly pissed off.

The truth is that cycle retailing is a fairly time-intensive industry, especially when you are dealing with novice clients. The challenge for the bike shop industry is to work out how to charge for this time.

While we're on the topic of buying online, can anyone enlighten me what kind of tax you pay on goods bought from an international site, and are you able to claim the tax paid in the country of origin back from SARS?[/quote']

 

LBS will never die.

How is it possible for me to buy cycling parts from overseas from a shop cheaper than what the agents in SA sells it to LBS.

How is it possible that I buy my electronics and IT equipment from local suppliers for much less than what it costs overseas.

It is because the importers that bring in IT equipment into SA knows that they are competing against international competition and not only in SA.

Now why cant the cycling agents in SA also sell their goods in the same way?
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You buy the polar from a online store' date=' register the product on www.polar.fi , its a legal Polar product and they will not allow bad customer services or country spesific politics.

If something goes wrong and the local distributer give you hazzles, you spam the international customer service with complaints.[/quote']

 

If I'm not mistaken a whime back there was a string on the Hub from someone having problems with Time Pedals, and as far as I can remember they did not get anything right through the agents in SA, they had to contact MR TIME....

 

This is usually tossed up as a risk of self importing and has its merit, however the chance of breakage today is minimal and usually worth the risk for the financial saving.

 

Personally, I have had only one breakage on imported products (and I import everything myself buying almost nothing locally) and the international supplier only wanted a digital pic of the breakage (no product return) and I had a new one delivered to my door in 7 days.

 

..but onto my point, agents who do not back up internationally purchased products do themselves more harm than good, it creates a poor customer perception of the importer and product and alienates future purchases.

 

Any manufacturer worth their salt will cover a product irrespective of where it was purchased, its the local agents who play the "hardball" game, but times "they are a changing" and its only the immature and short sighted ones who will alienate their customers over a product they can claim back from the manufacturer, and keep the customers good will and future business.

 

 
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just a few months ago Car Retailers were fined for Price fixing. Now it seems like they want to fix the prices of Cycling good' date=' wtf!?!? I reeeeeeeally don't get it.Unhappy[/quote']

 

I think they should do a Carte Blanche show on pricefixing in cycling.
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Get help from Raymond Ackerman, Pick 'n Pay. Read his book for inspiration. He stopped cartels and changed laws in RSA for his customers. What a guy. I only shop there because of what he was prepared to do.

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