Update cradleroute meeting

[chucky]

As mentioned previously we said we would keep you update on the cradleroute,and since there has been a huge amount of mud slinging since this last weekend here goes.

Myself ,Andrew and Ian Jones had a meeting a few weeks ago with the said cradleresident where the issues were discussed,we agreed to arrange a second meeting with ourselves ,central gauteng and other parties for the 18th of November,to try and move forward,things were all on line until now,the reacton from the residents is now as follows,"going to meetings to hear about the problum is not helping anybody.All that is going to happen,is that promises are made,and a follow up meeting scheduled that never happens.

Residents are not interested in the structure,politics and the ins and out of cycling"

So that been said things are off for now,i suggest u remain polite,keep left,and ride 2 a breast (rightly or wrongly)self policing is the best option ,no one person or club can police this area, you are all responsible for yourselves

Mark Thijs

[dirtrider]

Even though it does not concern me AT ALL , I think you okes did well . keep up the good work to try and keep the roadies safe .

[Eldron]

stuff

 

Mark Thijs

 

Nice work Mark! It's awesome to see people falling into the category of the doers rather than the sayers.

 

ANY mention of the Cradle will make people think about how they ride there and ANY thinking on how people ride there can only improve matters.

 

No such thing as bar PR I say.

 

Keep it coming cradleresident, keep the retorts going cyclists!

 

 

[Christopher Brunsdon]

We at least something good has come out of this.

[Moab]

Shot Mark! Thanks for your hard work. Perhaps one day the cradle battle can be over.

[Gasping]

Well done again Chucky.

 

Thanks for at least trying to do something.

[fatboyslim]

 i still think the club should be fined!!!!!! all that ride in club should be fined, this will stop whats happening quickly and keep things going, want's it hit's the packet's then things change very quickly! big club's need to learn!!!!

[Hoenderman]

Who's going to collect the fines? I'm willing to offer my bank account...

[Spinnekop]

 i still think the club should be fined!!!!!! all that ride in club should be fined' date=' this will stop whats happening quickly and keep things going, want's it hit's the packet's then things change very quickly! big club's need to learn!!!![/quote']

 

So I'll be riding in my Cyclelab kit this weekend?  And next weekend in my Bruce kit.

 

Nice idea! 

[scotty]

 i still think the club should be fined!!!!!! all that ride in club should be fined' date=' this will stop whats happening quickly and keep things going, want's it hit's the packet's then things change very quickly! big club's need to learn!!!![/quote']

How do you propose finning non club members or riders wearing kit similiar to clubs but commercially available and even then how do you prove that riders have transgressed, by having CGC appointed ride police hiding in bushes with camera's ? What if the guilty party races away, will the ride policeman be able to catch him on a bicycle ?

[davem]

Hi Chucky

 

The conduct of cyclists is the issue in question. The residents are reacting, sometimes in an inappropriate manner, but they are not the cause of the problem.

 

In the absence of effective law enforcement by JMPD and SAPS, self regulation by cyclists is probably the only effective solution.

 

May I suggest that the Thinktank you have setup, including the major clubs, develop and adopt a code of conduct that is published through all relevant media and club channels. Cyclists should be encouraged to sign this code of conduct (possibly a condition of club membership).

 

When I look at the photos published elsewhere, the offenders seem to fall into three categories:

 

1. Competent cyclists who make an occasional transgression. Like all road users, mistakes happen. Sometimes the transgression is a conscious decision to avoid another risk, for example glass in the cycle lane. These are the least of your problem, but heightened awareness will keep the focus on good road safety.

 

2. Competent cyclists who think they are above the law. These are evidenced by aggressive retaliatory behaviour when shown to be out of line. These are people who in spite of a knowledge of the law and safe cycling principles, just don't give a damn. It is quite easy to spot these on the Hub and on the road. This is the area that Clubs need to apply sanction because they endanger the lives of others on the ride and tarnish the name of the Club and the Sponsors.

 

3.  Unskilled cyclists. These guys and girls are new to the sport and are desperate to complete the course in safety. Their skills and safety knowledge is lacking. In my own experience, these are the cyclists who most often weave unpredictably into the road. The answer is education. They want to learn these skills. Is this not a massive opportunity for the clubs to recruit new members with the safety of a group ride, support vehicle and the entry level training?

 

I believe that a critical part of any Code of Conduct is that groups select a Ride Captain before a ride who plays a monitoring role. Very similar to the group ride marshals used by the major clubs. This person should understand the Code of Conduct and be comfortable pointing out where someone does ride in an unsafe or inappropriate manner. This will contribute to the education of cyclists who don't perhaps understand certain safety practices. Those who don't give a damn will soon be ejected from the group by social pressure.

 

Managing a group of people who have very little common affiliation can be difficult. I believe that it needs to be fashionable to be safe. Let's make being safe the hot topic of conversation. (This is a very different conversation to the current: Who's right and who's wrong, that is currently happening).

 

Safety is a habit whether you are cycling or operating a mine. The sooner we implement practices that encourage habitually safe riding, the sooner accidents will fall and the aggression will subside.

 

The sooner will come the day when the Cradle residents welcome us for our spending power in their economy.

 

Hope this contributes to the debate and, more importantly, the solution.

 

Cheers

Dave

 

 

 

[swsup97]

 

Hi Chucky

 

The conduct of cyclists is the issue in question. The residents are reacting' date=' sometimes in an inappropriate manner, but they are not the cause of the problem.

 

In the absence of effective law enforcement by JMPD and SAPS, self regulation by cyclists is probably the only effective solution.

 

May I suggest that the Thinktank you have setup, including the major clubs, develop and adopt a code of conduct that is published through all relevant media and club channels. Cyclists should be encouraged to sign this code of conduct (possibly a condition of club membership).

 

When I look at the photos published elsewhere, the offenders seem to fall into three categories:

 

1. Competent cyclists who make an occasional transgression. Like all road users, mistakes happen. Sometimes the transgression is a conscious decision to avoid another risk, for example glass in the cycle lane. These are the least of your problem, but heightened awareness will keep the focus on good road safety.

 

2. Competent cyclists who think they are above the law. These are evidenced by aggressive retaliatory behaviour when shown to be out of line. These are people who in spite of a knowledge of the law and safe cycling principles, just don't give a damn. It is quite easy to spot these on the Hub and on the road. This is the area that Clubs need to apply sanction because they endanger the lives of others on the ride and tarnish the name of the Club and the Sponsors.

 

3.  Unskilled cyclists. These guys and girls are new to the sport and are desperate to complete the course in safety. Their skills and safety knowledge is lacking. In my own experience, these are the cyclists who most often weave unpredictably into the road. The answer is education. They want to learn these skills. Is this not a massive opportunity for the clubs to recruit new members with the safety of a group ride, support vehicle and the entry level training?

 

I believe that a critical part of any Code of Conduct is that groups select a Ride Captain before a ride who plays a monitoring role. Very similar to the group ride marshals used by the major clubs. This person should understand the Code of Conduct and be comfortable pointing out where someone does ride in an unsafe or inappropriate manner. This will contribute to the education of cyclists who don't perhaps understand certain safety practices. Those who don't give a damn will soon be ejected from the group by social pressure.

 

Managing a group of people who have very little common affiliation can be difficult. I believe that it needs to be fashionable to be safe. Let's make being safe the hot topic of conversation. (This is a very different conversation to the current: Who's right and who's wrong, that is currently happening).

 

Safety is a habit whether you are cycling or operating a mine. The sooner we implement practices that encourage habitually safe riding, the sooner accidents will fall and the aggression will subside.

 

The sooner will come the day when the Cradle residents welcome us for our spending power in their economy.

 

Hope this contributes to the debate and, more importantly, the solution.

 

Cheers

Dave

 

 

 

[/quote']

 

Well said !

 

[fatboyslim]

Hi Chucky

The conduct of cyclists is the issue in question. The residents are reacting' date=' sometimes in an inappropriate manner, but they are not the cause of the problem.

In the absence of effective law enforcement by JMPD and SAPS, self regulation by cyclists is probably the only effective solution.

May I suggest that the Thinktank you have setup, including the major clubs, develop and adopt a code of conduct that is published through all relevant media and club channels. Cyclists should be encouraged to sign this code of conduct (possibly a condition of club membership).

When I look at the photos published elsewhere, the offenders seem to fall into three categories:

1. Competent cyclists who make an occasional transgression. Like all road users, mistakes happen. Sometimes the transgression is a conscious decision to avoid another risk, for example glass in the cycle lane. These are the least of your problem, but heightened awareness will keep the focus on good road safety.

2. Competent cyclists who think they are above the law. These are evidenced by aggressive retaliatory behaviour when shown to be out of line. These are people who in spite of a knowledge of the law and safe cycling principles, just don't give a damn. It is quite easy to spot these on the Hub and on the road. This is the area that Clubs need to apply sanction because they endanger the lives of others on the ride and tarnish the name of the Club and the Sponsors.

3.  Unskilled cyclists. These guys and girls are new to the sport and are desperate to complete the course in safety. Their skills and safety knowledge is lacking. In my own experience, these are the cyclists who most often weave unpredictably into the road. The answer is education. They want to learn these skills. Is this not a massive opportunity for the clubs to recruit new members with the safety of a group ride, support vehicle and the entry level training?

I believe that a critical part of any Code of Conduct is that groups select a Ride Captain before a ride who plays a monitoring role. Very similar to the group ride marshals used by the major clubs. This person should understand the Code of Conduct and be comfortable pointing out where someone does ride in an unsafe or inappropriate manner. This will contribute to the education of cyclists who don't perhaps understand certain safety practices. Those who don't give a damn will soon be ejected from the group by social pressure.

Managing a group of people who have very little common affiliation can be difficult. I believe that it needs to be fashionable to be safe. Let's make being safe the hot topic of conversation. (This is a very different conversation to the current: Who's right and who's wrong, that is currently happening).

Safety is a habit whether you are cycling or operating a mine. The sooner we implement practices that encourage habitually safe riding, the sooner accidents will fall and the aggression will subside.

The sooner will come the day when the Cradle residents welcome us for our spending power in their economy.

Hope this contributes to the debate and, more importantly, the solution.

Cheers
Dave


[/quote']

 

wELL DONE, SOMEBODY WITH BRAIN, WELL EXPLAINED, YOU ARE SO RIGHT- STILL THE CLUB MUST GET FINED!!!!

[Tubehunter]

FBS, you don't seem to care as much about the outcome as much as you do about somebody paying. What's your real agenda??

[linnega]

DaveM - your suggestions are excellent, practical and should be in the mandate of any club.  I would suggest however, that this only addresses part of the problem.  As much as you say the actions of cyclists is in question here, the actions of any one group of road users cannot be looked at in isolation.  I think the attitude of the Cradle residents clearly indicates that they believe they have no role to play in the safety of all users of the area.  If we assume that all you have recommended is implemented, no doubt confrontation will be reduced, but there will still be a number of incidents occurring where cyclists and motorists get confrontational, and as long as the motorists in the equation feel they are not contributing to the problem, these incidents will be used as justification for why "those bloody cyclists" shouldn't be on "our" road.

 

Chucky, I would suggest that you pursue engagement with the residents for exactly that reason, and commend you guys for making the effort.

 

As for the inane comments around fines, lets apply a little basic logic.  You cannot expect someone to take responsibility for others.  Cyclelab seems to have set up a structure that promotes safe cycling and positive engagement with the residents, which is more than can be expected of them.  Fining them would be like fining the AA because a taxi ran a red light.

[fatboyslim]

FBS' date=' you don't seem to care as much about the outcome as much as you do about somebody paying. What's your real agenda??

[/quote'] simple, big clubs seem to rule things, price fixing on bikes, dictating price's for race's, list list goes on. We have lost what riding should be about, enjoying riding,  Clubs should take ownership of what thier member do, take golf, if you step out of line then you get fined, or even expelled from the club, not in 'the riding clubs', do what you like mantallity!