Overlord Posted May 13, 2010 Posted May 13, 2010 I wonder if the PPA will increase the subs again this year. Less service more money.
Guest Frail4Life Posted May 14, 2010 Posted May 14, 2010 I am a mere Cyclist who is HUNGRY to go and RIDE! For the last eight years' date=' I have paid my fees every year. Every year the same questions get raised but what is done??? I am concerned, this year I am going do more than just ask the questions. For those that do not know me, I am a very relaxed quiet person. BUT I have had TEE with the Deputy Major of Cape Town. On two separate occasions been given a Police Escort on my bicycle in "Rush Hour Traffic" on the N1 Freeway. I have cycled Solo Cape Town to JHB and back three times. I have cycled Solo from Cape Town to "Compete in the Amashovashova, OFM, 94.7, Double Century,Burger" one Race to the next Race and back to Cape Town. I have cycled to Knysna, Plettenberg Bay, East London and back. Why because I AM HUNGRY. All for the greater good of others. [/quote'] Good Morning
Woofie Posted May 14, 2010 Posted May 14, 2010 Thanks Tarmac! Great to get some league feedback! Awesome points. Good to see that my seeding complaints are not unfounded as we can see from what you are saying about the argus. Also agree totally with the wp champs. I would love to give them a go one day, but in the middle of the off season? ? ? ? huh? And cycling is still a "team" sport you definitely need some colours for at least the top 10 or something.
Woofie Posted May 14, 2010 Posted May 14, 2010 I am a mere Cyclist who is HUNGRY to go and RIDE! For the last eight years' date=' I have paid my fees every year. Every year the same questions get raised but what is done??? I am concerned, this year I am going do more than just ask the questions. For those that do not know me, I am a very relaxed quiet person. BUT I have had TEE with the Deputy Major of Cape Town. On two separate occasions been given a Police Escort on my bicycle in "Rush Hour Traffic" on the N1 Freeway. I have cycled Solo Cape Town to JHB and back three times. I have cycled Solo from Cape Town to "Compete in the Amashovashova, OFM, 94.7, Double Century,Burger" one Race to the next Race and back to Cape Town. I have cycled to Knysna, Plettenberg Bay, East London and back. Why because I AM HUNGRY. All for the greater good of others. [/quote'] Well I wish that km's on my bike would ease my growling stomach as well...... Nice one with the police escort! How did you arrange that? Were you going down the yellow lane or something?
SuperMario Posted May 14, 2010 Posted May 14, 2010 PPA, do they still exist? Why again? Cancelled my membership years ago, rather used the money to join a club.
Woofie Posted May 14, 2010 Posted May 14, 2010 PPA' date=' do they still exist?? Why again?? Cancelled my membership years ago, rather used the money to join a club.[/quote'] Reasons? We need some feedback.
HomerSimpson Posted May 14, 2010 Posted May 14, 2010 I note that over the 7 pages of this thread only 20 hubbers bothered to post. Not sure how many hubbers are PPA members, but are these replies/concerns representative? Maybe you need to ask for a "roll-call" of PPA members on the Hub to endorse the issues that you want to raise. It will carry more weight then, surely?
Woofie Posted May 14, 2010 Posted May 14, 2010 I note that over the 7 pages of this thread only 20 hubbers bothered to post.? Not sure how many hubbers are PPA members' date=' but are these replies/concerns representative?? Maybe you need to ask for a "roll-call" of PPA members on the Hub to endorse the issues that you want to raise.? It will carry more weight then, surely?[/quote'] Yep. David is going to compile a list of all the issues and possible resolutions. Once we have the final copy that we are happy to hand in we will need to get names etc to endorse it. Any ideas how we could collect more names? Could the admin maybe lock the final draft thread onto the top of the forum and people can email David their details or something?
Woofie Posted May 14, 2010 Posted May 14, 2010 I see that David has updated his first post on this thread. Maybe it would be better to post a new reply because I dont think anyone has seen the alterations. When are you going to start compiling one complete list with the issues. Lets maybe list everything and then we can decide as a group what must stay and what must go.
SuperMario Posted May 14, 2010 Posted May 14, 2010 PPA' date=' do they still exist? Why again? Cancelled my membership years ago, rather used the money to join a club.[/quote'] Reasons? We need some feedback. Could not see what made then more special than other race organisers other than starting a few minutes earlier. The last PPA race I did, my finish time was withheld because I was not a PPA member, even though I paid my entry fee. Whatever! Moving on ....I think we should nationalise the mine ... oops meant PPA.
Guest Frail4Life Posted May 14, 2010 Posted May 14, 2010 If you do NOT reply' date=' NO Comment, This Letter is going unchanged back to PPA. I have emailed this Notice to some Clubs in the Western Cape. You may be asking why and who am I to be complaining and making so much noise. I only have one answer. It is MY RIGHT to question when I am not happy. We as a community need to offer our youth of Today a SAFE and HEALTHY sport and way of life. I have had a Full Racing licence, two seasons. I have had a Cyclo Sport licence, four seasons. I tend to participate in 99 % of the Road Events. PPA replied in RED. 1. Website up and working? A. Each topic, be it Seeding, Races, Calender. Have the main Subject on top of the said page. Not right at the bottom. B. The whole Website is lacking, no attraction. C. No headings, headings do not remain on the web page only on the Home page. ( need to keep going back to Home page to look for something). D. News items that are posted on the website, why not send them out to members with the first email for each month. ( I never knew about the Event BEN is hosting on the 23rd May 2010) E. With Events post the Town or Area. (not just a Farm stall or School or Wine Farm). Yes, all sections are up and running. 2. Seeding Update, When? Seeding does not need to be redone every month, but need stricter rules. (If a rider does not ride for a Season his Seeding must move down). Still happens on a monthly basis, unless there was a problem with the event data (not suitable for seeding; not enough participants etc) eg Malmesbury 3. New Seeding system? Seeding system to operate almost the same as the National Seeding. The finishing times at the "Top" Events when all the Pro's are riding must not be adjusted. Who is going to better that Pro's time? That just pushes the weighting index. The groups must be made smaller. With a pyramid scale. Will also keep the groups apart(ie. point 4.) Group Max 50, Total number of riders seldom hit 1500 for the Long route. A equals 20 with 1 official B equals 30 with 1 official C equals 40 with 1 official D equals 40 E equals 40 with 1 official F equals 40 G equals 40 with 1 official H equals 40 I equals 40 with 1 official J equals 40 K equals 40 with 1 official L equals 40 M equals 40 with 1 official And so forth. The seeding system must not be same as for road as it is for mtb. When a "roadie" does a MTB event his seeding should only be updated once he has completed his SECOND MTB event. The same applies when a "dirt rider" does a ROAD event his seeding should only be updated after completing his SECOND ROAD event. David Clarke constantly revises the seeding calculations and indeed did so again after the Cycle Tour 4. Race Number? Why League must use two Race Numbers on their kit? They also need to use a bike frame number. Why not just one number with the frame number? 5. NEW cyclists Must Qualify, First ride one or two Short routes? All new cyclists to "ROAD" should first only be allowed to enter short / medium routes until they have Qualified ( shown their fitness ie. Seeding). That is why seeding is done You are not understanding me. If I was a "new cyclist" and started racing my first few rides SHOULD only be a Short or Medium Route and then progress to Long Route. You have "babies" that want to do everything, RUN,JUMP, SKIP when they are still learning to WALK. 6. Not Allowing Bunches to join, Creating a danger? That was why I was wanting an OFFICIAL or Motor Bike riding with say every second bunch to stop the bunches regrouping. As the Official does with league. If any group or rider rides slowly his seeding will simply go down. You start in "F" bunch, you will finish in "F" bunch but you may be First or Last. Care is taken to keep bunches apart, but you cannot lengthen the gaps between starting groups any more than we already do as it will take too long to get some road events out. Sometimes bunches simply ride negatively/slowly and then you cannot prevent the next bunch from catching. League bunches that have officials with them, are not allowed to join and are policed as such 7. Official vehicle allocated for every third bunch? Can we not make use of Motor Bikes, in the lower groups. Think Bike. To keep the bunches separate just like the Official would do. No. Traffic authorities are very specific on this, and has indeed advised us that we need to cut down even more on support vehicles for league events. The support vehicles simply cause too many traffic hazards; cyclists need to be self-supportive, or get picked up in the official sweep vehicles if they have mechanical problems. PPA cycling marshals also assist 8. More respect for Think Bike, Do they get a Salary? There must be less contact between cyclists, not forcing one another over the line or into the dirt. Just because the OFFICIAL is on a Motor Bike means we can do as we please. No they do not get a salary as such, but a R300 contribution per bike gets paid to ThinkBike to cover their fuel etc costs. Most cyclists are very appreciative of the difficult work they do. PPA carries these costs in order to assist with safety at events. 9. Cyclist Banned for White Line / Accidents? Those names need to be posted somewhere, there is no point in a rule if I know I will get off with a cheap excuse and sorry I will not do it again. In the end those who have the accident are not always the one going over the line or riding like a "Tjop". Yes they do get disqualified and a report will be presented as to many were DQed in the last season, after due disciplinary procedures are followed. At last count these were more than 100. We can perhaps include this sort of info in the emails to database. 10. Cycle Accidents caused by "new Cyclist" wrong seeding? All accidents should be noted and investigated. Some cyclist are too scared to ride in a bunch, sometimes too cautious. Always riding on the brakes. None 11. Finish SAFETY? The finish to be on a deserted side road, Dual carriage road with one side closed to traffic. In the final 5 KM there should be zero traffic. Police and marshalls should be made aware that we will be approaching at 50kmph plus and be competing for one square meter. DO NOT WARN CYCLISTS TO SLOW DOWN DUE TO FINISH LINE or TIME MATS. This is a Race and we are going to SPEED until the last minute. 12. Demarcated parking areas, not at the Road side, 1 km from Finish Line? Parking areas are always a problem, people will always arrive late and park anywhere. When organizing the Event enough consideration must be put in place for Parking and Security. The issue has been addressed after Simonsvlei and has not occurred again. The onus is also on cyclists to obey parking and other marshals. Having said that, no parked cars at Simonsvlei actually interfered with the finish line and did not cause any accidents We will not go into a debate about this careless approach. 13. Water tables, not at 10km but at the last 10 / 5 km? New cyclists should not be cycling the Long route. (Point 5) They should manage the first 30km. With organizing the Water Points, there is no need for a table to be placed in the first 30 / 40 km. More care in placing the tables every say 25 km thereafter the first table. The main problem is that cyclists run out of water in the last 10 km of the Event. Organisers try to keep costs and entry fees as low as possible, and adding more water points would add more costs. A 750ml bottle of water should last a cyclist more than an hour / 25km. We also recommend that cyclists carry two water bottles, which should be enough to almost complete the Cycle Tour. If cyclists stop and fill up at all water points, then they should never run out of water. In hot conditions, additional water is delivered to water points and marshalling and sweep vehicles normally also carry additional water. Coke and Powerade cost money, which would again add to the entry fees, which organisers try to keep as low as possible ? Coke sponsors only the cup at the finish, anything else needs to be bought 14. More short route options If possible. Make use of the Long route as a base and offering a Short and a Medium route. If there is Short route options we will be able to tag the whole family along. Wife and kids do not want to / CAN NOT finish 60 / 80 km. They only cycle once maybe twice a month. yes. Most routes already use the short route options in the area and there are not necessarily more routes available. In some cases, organisers have tried shorter routes but, due to lack of participation, gave those up again as they were not utilized sufficiently and added to overall event costs - More routes mean more marshals and traffic, more water points and logistics, i.e. increased costs 15. No need for Day Licence? This point needs to be used in all PPA marketing. That is where the gap in the market is at the moment. Not enough kids, wife's, families support the cycling Events. Showing the cost ie. discount for the Short routes needs to be highlighted. PPA members and cyclists who belong to any club or affiliate of CSA, do not need to pay any day license fees. For non-members, CSA has agreed that no Day License is needed for UNTIMED routes, which you?ll see in the email to database every week ? some short routes are not timed and for those, no Day License is needed. 15. Events? Put Events onto the Calender in all Suburbs, not just the Southern Suburbs or Northern Suburbs or Worcester, Rawsonville. Having an equal amount of Road and Mtb Events for a season. Also an equal amount of Events on a Saturday as to a Sunday. For work commitments some people only get Saturdays off or Sundays off. [/quote'] Something IS going be achieved good or bad with this Notice. Thank You to all those Hubbers that have taken the effort to post a comment.
Naas V Posted May 14, 2010 Posted May 14, 2010 This post and the majority of complaints are extremely "frail" 20 hubbers are involved here. PPA has over 16 000 members. Less than a 150 people attend yearly AGM's - so what's wrong then? Apparently not a lot! 500 riders race league. League is responsible for more than 70% of PPA's daily headaches. League runs on a loss - for the past 5 years. Traffic DON'T want funrides/races on Saturdays - too much traffic. Marshalls at funrides are volunteers from various organising committees - PPA don't know them, have'nt train them and have almost no control over them. PPA dropped over R3 mil into abt 30 cycling related projects last year. The EXCO committee of PPA spend an average of 10 hours per week on committee work- Voluntarily and UNPAID, ask me, I've been there. A golf day makes more money that most funrides and is 75% less effort - be grateful for the amount of funrides still offered., etc. etc. I can go on and on and on. You all know this quote " it's not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country!" Worcester Wheelers said it earlier on but it was completely ignored. Offer your expertice on committee level or elsewhere within the cycling communuty - GIVE something and help. Skip one funride and instead go to the organisers and offer your help. That's what PPA needs - volunteers and help and positive, constructive advice from someone with a little bit of knowledge re the problems behind running an organisation like PPA. With all respect Frail, you've been a member for 8 years you said and I have'nt seen you at the last 3 AGM's PPA held - why not? 20 hubbers is certainly not a convincing mandate! I know there are issues to be addressed but frankly guys, the stuff that you are worrying abt is really small frey and a lot of the suggestions really impractical if you look at the bigger picture. So, how then forward? The idea of getting issues on paper is good. Get someone on the EXCO committee that's committed to stay there for at least 2 years. Suss out the vibe and determine priorities. Start addressing the issues one-by-one from within. Lobby disgruntled members to attend AGM's so that the issues have a stronger power mechanism etc etc. Anyway, good luck. I hope all of you will be an integral part of improving the system for the good of all of us.Naas V2010-05-14 15:06:40
Guest Frail4Life Posted May 14, 2010 Posted May 14, 2010 This post and the majority of complaints are extremely "frail" Explain? Constructive? 20 hubbers are involved here. I have sent emails to Four Clubs in the Western Cape. PPA has over 16 000 members. Less than a 150 people attend yearly AGM's - so what's wrong then? Apparently not a lot!The same issues are raised every Year with no fail. But no improvement. WHY? 500 riders race league. League is responsible for more than 70% of PPA's daily headaches. League runs on a loss - for the past 5 years.That I will not believe. Before you can show some proof? Traffic DON'T want funrides/races on Saturdays - too much traffic.Traffic do NOT WANT cyclists on the road FULLSTOP. Marshalls at funrides are volunteers from various organising committees - PPA don't know them' date=' have'nt train them and have almost no control over them.Yes sometimes the Volunteers are children or just someone who has NO real concern about you the Cyclist or the Traffic. PPA dropped over R3 mil into abt 30 cycling related projects last year.Money from membership and from Cycle Tour Trust. The EXCO committee of PPA spend an average of 10 hours per week on committee work- Voluntarily and UNPAID, ask me, I've been there.Everything has its perks. A golf day makes more money that most funrides and is 75% less effort - be grateful for the amount of funrides still offered.,Be gratefull for the Half Service. I doubt it. Everyone will at sometime enough is enough. etc. etc. I can go on and on and on.Well please continue. So we can solve the issue. No point in saving the DIRTY LAUNDRY. You all know this quote " it's not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country!"Worcester Wheelers said it earlier on but it was completely ignored.You said you have have never seen me at any AGM. So you will not know that I have put myself available. But no reply. Offer your expertice on committee level or elsewhere within the cycling communuty - GIVE something and help. You also do NOT have any IDEA what I do? Simple Google my name. You may just get a fright. Skip one funride and instead go to the organisers and offer your help.That's what PPA needs - volunteers and help and positive, constructive advice from someone with a little bit of knowledge re the problems behind running an organisation like PPA.I am offering my advice, solutions. If they do not have enough help, they should Employ more staff. They are running the show as a Bussiness. But then you know that already. all respect Frail, you've been a member for 8 years you said and I have'nt seen you at the last 3 AGM's PPA held - why not? Ok Memory flash. Do NOT tell me you have never seen a bicycle at the entrance into the Auditorium? 20 hubbers is certainly not a convincing mandate!Repeat. You raised that point already. I know there are issues to be addressed but frankly guys, the stuff that you are worrying abt is really small frey and a lot of the suggestions really impractical if you look at the bigger picture.Have to start somewhere and progress. So, how then forward?The idea of getting issues on paper is good.I did not say HOW I am going to handle those issue once they have been handed over to PPA. Get someone on the EXCO committee that's committed to stay there for at least 2 years. Suss out the vibe and determine priorities. Start addressing the issues one-by-one from within. Lobby disgruntled members to attend AGM's so that the issues have a stronger power mechanism etc etc.Thanks for the advice. Anyway, good luck. I hope all of you will be an integral part of improving the system for the good of all of us.[/quote'] Please state your position on or off the EXCO. Please state are you commenting as personal individual or a Club? I will be there as always with the bicycle so this time look out for the bike. Is this the best you can complain about??? Am I being harsh? I am just being myself and I am nobody special. But I do have a very BIG passion for Cycling.frail2010-05-14 20:36:42
Lucky Luke. Posted May 14, 2010 Posted May 14, 2010 Naas you raise some good points, particularly about lobbying from within. You're wrong about David attending AGM's though, he's been going since at least 2005: David Kleynhans questioned the number of road rides vs MTB funrides on the Spring-Summer calendar. Meurant Botha explained that there is roughly an even split between MTB and road events and that MTB events are easier (fewer marshals) and cheaper (no traffic fees) to organise. David Kleynhans questioned why PPA is organizing only one Bike to Work Day every now and again. Lance Burger replied that nothing stops people from commuting ? he does it on a daily basis. From this doc, found via Google:http://www.pedalpower.co.za/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=%2BIZQ%2BNAIjS0%3D&tabid=73&mid=672 lukehardiman2010-05-14 20:31:52
Guest Frail4Life Posted May 14, 2010 Posted May 14, 2010 Naas you raise some good points' date=' particularly about lobbying from within. You're wrong about David attending AGM's though, he's been going since at least 2005:<span style="text-decoration: underline;"></span>David Kleynhans questioned the number of road rides vs MTB funrides on the Spring-Summer calendar. Meurant Botha explained that there is roughly an even split between MTB and road events and that MTB events are easier (fewer marshals) and cheaper (no traffic fees) to organise. David Kleynhans questioned why PPA is organizing only one Bike to Work Day every now and again. Lance Burger replied that nothing stops people from commuting ? he does it on a daily basis.From this doc, found via Google:http://www.pedalpower.co.za/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=%2BIZQ%2BNAIjS0%3D&tabid=73&mid=672 <!-- Font Definitions @font-face font-family:Arial; panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4; Style Definitions p.Msonormal, li.Msonormal, div.Msonormal margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; @page Section1 size:612.0pt 792.0pt; margin:72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt; mso-paper-source:0; div.Section1 page:Section1; --> Good Morning.
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