PPA What can they Do?

[Guest Frail4Life]

OK.

 

Meeting is planned for Monday / Tuesday , please any last minute comments?

 

 

 

David

[WorcesterWheelers]

Here's my 2c worth.

 

If you really want to get things changed and get the PPA to address your issues:

Put yourself up for election at the next PPA Exco election.

 

Then you can get actively involved in helping with the solution....

WorcesterWheelers2010-05-09 00:29:38

[butafly]

 

Here's my 2c worth.

 

If you really want to get things changed and get the PPA to address your issues:

Put yourself up for election at the next PPA Exco election.

 

Then you can get actively involved in helping with the solution....

 

you can even volunteer your services to PPA to serve on their committee now , they are desperate for help.

 

[mikkelz]

Having ridden in the PPA organised Tru-Cape MTB event yesterday, one thing I noticed that seriously needs to change is the separation of road and MTB seeding.

 

 

 

Some roadies just aren't cut out for the mountain and vice versa. No offence to any one, but they are two separate disciplines and not everyone is equally good at both. i.e. your road seeding doesn't necessarily reflect your ability on the MTB.

[niklasvm]

Having ridden in the PPA organised Tru-Cape MTB event yesterday' date=' one thing I noticed that seriously needs to change is the separation of road and MTB seeding.

 

 

 

Some roadies just aren't cut out for the mountain and vice versa. No offence to any one, but they are two separate disciplines and not everyone is equally good at both. i.e. your road seeding doesn't necessarily reflect your ability on the MTB.[/quote']

 

 

 

I fully agree with this. I'm very new to the offroad scene and specifically started at the back yesterday. I found that I was better and stronger on all the climbs and flat sections but the technical terrain definitely got the better of me.

 

 

 

I also think that they shouldn't group so many seeded groups together and rather allow a bit more space between groups. Why in a road race do they let a maximum of 30 people go in a group and then yesterday let groups of over 100 off together?

 

 

 

I propose that they design a seeding system based specifically for mtb races that takes into account the terrain, distance, etc. In that way it'll make most riders much happier. e.g. you won't be held up on the single track and slower riders won't feel pressured when they tackle more difficult terrain.

[Guest Frail4Life]

All points are noted.

 

 

 

Keep the points coming.

 

Thanks Hubbers.

[Wannabe]

Having ridden in the PPA organised Tru-Cape MTB event yesterday' date=' one thing I noticed that seriously needs to change is the separation of road and MTB seeding.

Some roadies just aren't cut out for the mountain and vice versa. No offence to any one, but they are two separate disciplines and not everyone is equally good at both. i.e. your road seeding doesn't necessarily reflect your ability on the MTB.[/quote']

AGREE ON THIS ONE.

[Guest Frail4Life]

Here's my 2c worth.

 

?

 

If you really want to get things changed and get the PPA to address your issues:

 

Put yourself up for election at the next PPA Exco election.

 

?

 

Then you can get actively involved in helping with the solution....

 

 

 

I will make further enquiries.

[Rapunzel]

I spoke to Dave Clark from racetec re seedings and he pointed out some obvious challenges for mtb seeding. Route markings are not always good so not all riders complete the full distance eg Faircape (many organisers are still on a learning curve). Argus MTB also couldn't be used for seeding due to routes being cut short due to the heat.

 

I think the correct action to take would be to mail pedal power with a list of your results, requesting a review of your seeding. Hopefully this can resolve your problems until a more suitable system can be established.

[mikkelz]

I spoke to Dave Clark from racetec re seedings and he pointed out some obvious challenges for mtb seeding. Route markings are not always good so not all riders complete the full distance eg Faircape (many organisers are still on a learning curve). Argus MTB also couldn't be used for seeding due to routes being cut short due to the heat.

 

I think the correct action to take would be to mail pedal power with a list of your results' date=' requesting a review of your seeding. Hopefully this can resolve your problems until a more suitable system can be established.[/quote']

 

 

 

Surely if you don't complete the full distance for a race (i.e. the long route) your seeding shouldn't be counted (weighted) as much. I really don't see how this is will be an issue if (hopefully) the seeding gets split into road and MTB.

 

 

 

As an example, if you didn't complete the Argus MTB challenge full route this year due to not making the cutoff mark (25km's?) by the required time, you're not exactly going to get a "good" seeding, even if you did finish. That being said, you'd get seeded according to the distance you completed, but that would just "weigh" less.

 

 

 

1. Choosing the weighting of the different rides

 

Rides count for different percentages of your total seeding, depending on difficulty, distance and the status of the event. The Cycle Tour will count 50% (half your total seeding) and the other funride routes will count different percentages, based on the number of finishers in the event, as well as several other factors. Most long routes are weighted 34% (so 3 of these will make a full seeding). In some instances some events/routes do not meet all the criteria needed for seeding, and will therefore not be used.

 

 

 

PPA: How we calculate your seeding.

 

 

 

Disclaimer: I am in no way in favour of the current seeding system used by the PPA, but the quote above illustrates my point that there shouldn't be an issue in separating different distances for MTB events when calculating a seeding.

 

 

 

In summary: shorter distance (whether by choice or nature's intervention) counts for less. mikkelz2010-05-09 14:34:45

[rpedro]

mikkelz Its an issue because people enter the long route and then decide to do the shorter route or take short cuts (sometimes not intentionally) and end up finishing tops. Route markings also contribute to confusion and people end up taking a wrong turn. Pedal power therefore does not know who completed the full race distance.<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

I think PPA need to introduce additional time mats on strategically places on especially the long MTB routes.

 

[mikkelz]

<P =Msonormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN lang=EN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana'' date=''sans-serif'; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-: EN"><SPAN style="COLOR: black; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt">mikkelz</SPAN> Its an issue because people enter the long route and then decide to do the shorter route or take short cuts (sometimes not intentionally) and end up finishing tops. Route markings also contribute to confusion and people end up taking a wrong turn. Pedal power therefore does not know who completed the full race distance.<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></SPAN>

 

<P =Msonormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal"><SPAN lang=EN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-: EN">I think PPA need to introduce additional time mats on strategically places on especially the long MTB routes.<o:p></o:p></SPAN>

 

?

[/quote']

 

 

 

@rpedro: I see how that can be an issue.

 

 

 

The Argus MTB challenge this year had a timing mat approximately halfway through the long route. Surely it's easy to see if a rider "cheated" and won a race ahead of other riders who have had far better performances than them. I think the only time it will be difficult to find out if the rider was a legitimate winner or not, is if they have no previous race results.

[rpedro]

QUOTE]

@rpedro: I see how that can be an issue.

The Argus MTB challenge this year had a timing mat approximately halfway through the long route. Surely it's easy to see if a rider "cheated" and won a race ahead of other riders who have had far better performances than them. I think the only time it will be difficult to find out if the rider was a legitimate winner or not, is if they have no previous race results.

 

Indeed however I am not too concerned about the actual winners (podium finishers) but it?s the rest of the finishers. Have a look at position number 6 (Frank Adrian) in Fair Cape Pointbreak MTB Challenge (55km) for instance. There could be loads more that go undetected ;-)<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

[niklasvm]

QUOTE] @rpedro: I see how that can be an issue. The Argus MTB challenge this year had a timing mat approximately halfway through the long route. Surely it's easy to see if a rider "cheated" and won a race ahead of other riders who have had far better performances than them. I think the only time it will be difficult to find out if the rider was a legitimate winner or not' date=' is if they have no previous race results.[/quote']

 

?

 

 

<P =Msonormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal"><SPAN lang=EN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-: EN">Indeed however I am not too concerned about the actual winners (podium finishers) but it?s the rest of the finishers. Have a look at position number 6 (</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-ansi-: EN">Frank?Adrian)?</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-: EN">in Fair Cape Pointbreak MTB Challenge?(55km)?for instance. There could be loads more that go undetected ;-)<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></SPAN>

 

 

 

I know Frank Adrian and he's an absolute demon on and offroad. Just take a look at his Argus time. He's from Namibia so has not got many local results yet.

[rpedro]

I know Frank Adrian and he's an absolute demon on and offroad. Just take a look at his Argus time. He's from Namibia so has not got many local results yet.

 

My bad but I guess you can see why I concluded what I did. Also this past weekend he only finished 63rd which is a huge drop from 6th place the previous week. I guess he could have had some mechanicals in the Tru Cape race. Any case the top guys in the Fair Cape Pointbreak MTB Challenge did not complete the full race distance.<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

[mikkelz]

The Tru-Cape and Fair Cape MTB events are very different from what I've heard. My friends rode Fair Cape and Tru-Cape (I just did Tru-Cape) and their times were also faster for Fair Cape.

 

 

 

But I can see where the complexity can come in.