Full racing license for 2011

[Andrew mclean]

Hello All,

Long long time since I was on the Hub, glad to see it is alive and well, unfortunately still seems to be more negative than positive [bad choice of words on a Cycling forum] input. just my personal observation after a quick scan of the Hub topics.

 

Anyway, 2011 racing categories.

A lot of good people, especially Barry and Hendrick, are trying hard to make a real difference and please remember you will never keep everyone happy all of the time.

Most of the strong racing countries subscribe to strength vs strength racing rather than age categories.

Here is my proposal for the Full racing categories;

 

Category 1: Elite & U23 Men, Veteran 30+ Men (Teams), Junior Men

 Category 2: Next 150-200 full racing license registered riders. * Women Top Club Teams

 Category 3: Next 150-200 full racing license registered riders. * Women Top Club Teams

 Category 4: Next 150-200 full racing license registered riders.

*Women Elite Top Club Teams will be group either in Cat2 or Cat 3, depending on team avg seeding and that of the applicable group.

 

After this it will be; A, B, C, D, etc

 

It does rely on an accurate seeding system which CSA is working on.

I keen to hear your comments and "constructive "criticism"

Obviously you will be able to move up or down a category based on your results or lack there of, but I won't go into that detail.

Fire away......

[mallo]

Best proposal thus far. how do you feel about the "Ability based seeding system"?

[Spinnekop]

Hi Andrew.

Thanks for the input! Pity CSA won't really listen to us mere mortals.

It is my understanding that Barry and Hendrik has been approached with these issues and the net result as far as I can see is the PDF document that was sent out to governing bodies across SA. Thus in essence the did not bother to listen to us mere mortals.....

 

That said, your proposal as above makes sense.

I would however would like so see ONE change to that:

 

If it was me......

Now firstly keep THIS IN MIND:

Most of the strong racing countries subscribe to strength vs strength racing rather than age categories.

 

Then take this cat:

 

Category 1: Elite & U23 Men, Veteran 30+ Men (Teams), Junior Men

 

and change it to:

Category 1: Pro riders irrespective of age - Contract. Team. Manager. Professional cyclist doing it for a living!

[Spinnekop]

Hello All,

Long long time since I was on the Hub, glad to see it is alive and well, unfortunately still seems to be more negative than positive [bad choice of words on a Cycling forum] input. just my personal observation after a quick scan of the Hub topics.

 

Anyway, 2011 racing categories.

A lot of good people, especially Barry and Hendrick, are trying hard to make a real difference and please remember you will never keep everyone happy all of the time.

Most of the strong racing countries subscribe to strength vs strength racing rather than age categories.

Here is my proposal for the Full racing categories;

 

 Category 1: Elite & U23 Men, Veteran 30+ Men (Teams), Junior Men Professional Cyclist with contract and pay

 Category 2: Next 150-200 full racing license registered riders. * Women Top Club Teams

 Category 3: Next 150-200 full racing license registered riders. * Women Top Club Teams

 Category 4: Next 150-200 full racing license registered riders.

*Women Elite Top Club Teams will be group either in Cat2 or Cat 3, depending on team avg seeding and that of the applicable group.

 

After this it will be; A, B, C, D, etc

 

It does rely on an accurate seeding system which CSA is working on.

I keen to hear your comments and "constructive "criticism"

Obviously you will be able to move up or down a category based on your results or lack there of, but I won't go into that detail.

Fire away......

 

There we go.....Fixed it!

[DB28]

Hello All,

Long long time since I was on the Hub, glad to see it is alive and well, unfortunately still seems to be more negative than positive [bad choice of words on a Cycling forum] input. just my personal observation after a quick scan of the Hub topics.

 

Anyway, 2011 racing categories.

A lot of good people, especially Barry and Hendrick, are trying hard to make a real difference and please remember you will never keep everyone happy all of the time.

Most of the strong racing countries subscribe to strength vs strength racing rather than age categories.

Here is my proposal for the Full racing categories;

 

Category 1: Elite & U23 Men, Veteran 30+ Men (Teams), Junior Men

 Category 2: Next 150-200 full racing license registered riders. * Women Top Club Teams

 Category 3: Next 150-200 full racing license registered riders. * Women Top Club Teams

 Category 4: Next 150-200 full racing license registered riders.

*Women Elite Top Club Teams will be group either in Cat2 or Cat 3, depending on team avg seeding and that of the applicable group.

 

After this it will be; A, B, C, D, etc

 

It does rely on an accurate seeding system which CSA is working on.

I keen to hear your comments and "constructive "criticism"

Obviously you will be able to move up or down a category based on your results or lack there of, but I won't go into that detail.

Fire away......

 

I agree, Barry and Hendrik are the right men for their jobs... they are really doing a lot of good work considering where they started from at CSA. I am sure RSA will be able to compete with nations such as AUS and the UK in the next 3 years if they stay at CSA.

 

This is what i would want...

 

firstly, a job at CSA... would love to be part of the change

 

secondly...

 

A licence fee of R300 that gets me 1 number to use the whole year as race cat rider.

R150 for a CSA timing chip to be used at all CSA sanctioned events

 

Race cat 1 open to riders of all age cats in pro teams (all races over 140km)

Race cat 2 open to riders of all age cats (your typical 100km races)

Race cat 3 open to riders of all age cats (your typical 100km races)

Race cat 4 open to riders of all age cats (your typical 100km races)

Race cat 5 open to riders of all age cats (your typical 100km races)

Race cat 0 open to riders Under 16 (all races less than 90km)

 

*These are the only cats awarded prize money.

*There is a seeding criteria run by CSA, which determines which race cat i initially fall under. *The first 20 places in every CSA sanctioned race get points.

*You need to reach a certain number of points to move up a cat.

*As soon as you hit that amount of points you must move up, unless you are a Cat 2 racer 30 years or older... then the move to Cat 1 is optional.

*Teams will form automatically, for example cycle lab, club 100 etc. would have riders in every category anyway and they would be stupid not race as a team.

 

Everyone that does not want to be in a race cat...

 

A License fee of R250 that gets them 1 race number to use the whole year as an open seeded rider

R150 for a CSA timing chip to be used at all CSA sanctioned events

 

Groups as they have always been...

Tandems

A Bunch

B Bunch

C Bunch

etc.

 

When a riders seeding reaches race cat level 5 they can move into that race cat for the very next race

Edited October 29, 2010 by boet

[Spinnekop]

Andrew:

 

If you ever get a chance to chat to the heads of state, take some ideas you think might be usefull:

 

https://community.bikehub.co.za/topic/87835-csa-2011-poll/page__pid__1200133#entry1200133

 

https://community.bikehub.co.za/topic/85390-csa-racing-rules-2011/

 

https://community.bikehub.co.za/topic/87771-csa-this-is-what-we-want/page__p__1199068__hl__csa__fromsearch__1#entry1199068

 

https://community.bikehub.co.za/topic/87714-cycling-sa-2011-road-racing-regulations/page__p__1198255__hl__2011__fromsearch__1#entry1198255

[AndreZA]

I just think that there should be something more then just the cat 1 pro bunch for teams. There will always be team racing and if I make it to Cat 2 that will put me man alone against teams.

[shadowchaser-d]

I believe if you are allocated 1 race number for the year, you will have more cyclist partaking. I live 200km from Jozi, i do get to race but would race more if i did not have to make a weekend of racing, could just drive up on the morning of the race.

 

I like spidey's edited version but as he said, they have pleaded their case to Barry and Hendrik and yet their view points were not heard. So are we not just banging our heads agains a wall here?

[Frosty]

Hello All,

Long long time since I was on the Hub, glad to see it is alive and well, unfortunately still seems to be more negative than positive [bad choice of words on a Cycling forum] input. just my personal observation after a quick scan of the Hub topics.

 

Anyway, 2011 racing categories.

A lot of good people, especially Barry and Hendrick, are trying hard to make a real difference and please remember you will never keep everyone happy all of the time.

Most of the strong racing countries subscribe to strength vs strength racing rather than age categories.

Here is my proposal for the Full racing categories;

 

Category 1: Elite & U23 Men, Veteran 30+ Men (Teams), Junior Men - allow it if they think they can compete, but don't exclude them from prize money in category 2, or from riding individually in any of the remaining categories.

 Category 2: Next 150-200 full racing license registered riders. * Women Top Club Teams - preference to Vet's teams (with/without a manager) and Elite ladies, similar to the SuperSeries of a few years ago. Obviously, no team car allowed without a manager and minimum 4 riders.

 Category 3: Next 150-200 full racing license registered riders. * Women Top Club Teams (Vet ladies)

 Category 4: Next 150-200 full racing license registered riders.

*Women Elite Top Club Teams will be group either in Cat2 or Cat 3, depending on team avg seeding and that of the applicable group.

 

After this it will be; A, B, C, D, etc

 

It does rely on an accurate seeding system which CSA is working on.

I keen to hear your comments and "constructive "criticism"

Obviously you will be able to move up or down a category based on your results or lack there of, but I won't go into that detail.

Fire away......

The seeding in the mountain biking circles seems to be working well - they grade your time, as well as the course.

Perhaps road should be graded on your overall time against the winner, as well as your time against the winner of your category, and then the actual route. Fast and flat routes count less, compared to slower, hillier courses. Longer distance vs shorter distance.

Have a promotion/relegation between categories twice a year. The bottom 40% gets relegated to the lower category, while the top 40% in the lower category are promoted up one category. This excludes Category 1.

 

My 2c

[Skaap]

i would like to see cat 1 to cat 10, 11, 12, 13, etc

 

because then a non-pro can work him self up to the faster groups.

 

Then the groups will be really strengh vs strengh. you will then not get these guys in A bunch swearing at you for not pulling up front were as you just trying to hold on for dear life....

 

there always seems to be +-15 riders in the group who are to strong for the rest. (in open seeded cat). if there were 50 guys with similair strengh in the same group well that will be exiting. no age groups!

 

2c

[Pomstar]

Hi all

 

With the new rules coming in to action i find it really hard to believe that it is beneficial to cycling as a whole. Yes maybe there are to many bunches and maybe there are some riders in catagories who do not belong there.

I feel that Joining Elite, U23, Vet and Juniors in one bunch is not a good thing.

 

I have a full time job ( as do most people ) and race vets 30-35. how can i compete with Elite ( PRO ) riders who's job it is to sit on a bike......

I think they Elite and U23 group is to stay together, but, for European standards, the distances should be around 150km - 180km. These 100km sprints prove nothing in the SA Pro ranks.

 

The racing, I think is great the way it is. What i would REALLY like to know is the thinking behind this. Sure if its to promote cycling in the country fine, but how????

 

Maybe an Amature group is to be formed.

 

Vets racing groups is where the money is, Guys are spending big bucks on quallity equipment for that extra edge, now its all null and void racing Pro's..... I just dont see the logic.

[mtbvip]

I agree with all the categories. Some amateurs do have the ability to race with the pro's and give them a run for their money (just because you are not getting paid to ride a bike does not mean you can't ride like you are). If you are good enough you should have the option of racing with the pro's. Other guys of the same ability prefer rather racing amateurs - these guys should have the option to choose racing in the VET category (as an example) OR elite (pro's).

 

All things said, I agree with strength vs strength with seperate provision made for juniors and vets to race each other if they wish to.

[Pundit]

i agree with spinnekops proposal, vets who want to race pro should race as pro / elite. for the rest, strength versus strength is fine. that said, i don't personally think there is that much wrong with the existing system for Vets

[Spinnekop]

I have heard a little bird wistle that there are some changes being made to that PDF doc.....

GOOD changes!

 

 

Let's see what pops out.........

[AndreZA]

I have heard a little bird wistle that there are some changes being made to that PDF doc.....

GOOD changes!

 

 

Let's see what pops out.........

 

I can also make changes to that PDF doc. What do you want it to say? If it will be implemented is another story.

[Lucky Luke.]

and change it to:

Category 1: Pro riders irrespective of age - Contract. Team. Manager. Professional cyclist doing it for a living!

 

That might work well in Gauteng, but the Cat 1 bunch down here would be comprised of David George and maybe a couple of mountain bikers. Maybe not such a bad thing for me, as the Cat 2 bunch would be massive and DG would have to time trial his nuts off to stay away from us .. haha

Edited November 1, 2010 by Luke.